The Future of Nuclear Energy: Facts and Fiction - Part III: How (un)reliable are the Red Book Uranium Resource Data?

This is the third part of a four-part guest post by Dr. Michael Dittmar. Dr. Dittmar is a researcher with the Institute of Particle Physics of ETH Zurich, and he also works at CERN in Geneva.

For more than 40 years, the Nuclear Energy Agency (NEA) of the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) of the United Nations have published a bi-annual document with the title "Uranium Resources, Production and Demand." This book, known as the IAEA/NEA 2007 Red Book, summarizes data about the actual and near future nuclear energy situation and presents the accumulated world-wide knowledge about the existing and expected uranium resources. These data are widely believed to provide an accurate and solid basis for future decisions about nuclear energy. Unfortunately, as it is demonstrated in this article, they do not.

The conventional world-wide uranium resources are estimated by the authors of the Red Book as 5.5 million tons. Out of these, 3.3 million tons are assigned to the reasonably assured category, and 2.2 million tons are associated with the not yet discovered but assumed to exist inferred resources. Our analysis shows that neither the 3.3 million tons of "assured" resources nor the 2.2 million tons of inferred resources are justified by the Red Book data and that the actual known exploitable resources are probably much smaller.

Despite many shortcomings of the uranium resource data, some interesting and valu­able information can be extracted from the Red Book. Perhaps most importantly, the Red Book resource data can be used to test the "economic-geological hypothesis," which claims that a doubling of uranium price will increase the amount of exploitable uranium resources by an even larger factor. The relations between the uranium resources claimed for the different resource categories and their associated cost estimates are found to be in clear contradiction with this hypothesis.

(Links to 1st and 2nd parts)

1. Introduction

Policy makers almost never discuss uranium resources and many other important resource issues in public. One reason seems to be that most energy resources are still considered to be a non-issue, and consequently, are ignored by world-wide policy makers and their economic or academic advisors.

The rapid increase in crude oil prices in the spring of 2008 has led to an attitude change with respect to the oil resource situation. Ever more people start to pay attention to questions of geological and technological limits to oil extraction capacities. This has resulted in the wish to obtain accurate oil and gas resource data, especially from the OPEC countries [1].

In contrast, the uranium resources appear to be accurately documented in the Red Book: Uranium Resources, Production and Demand. In this book, updated every two years, the IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency) of the United Nations together with the NEA (Nuclear Energy Agency) of the OECD countries have presented, for more than 40 years [2], their collective knowledge about uranium resources and its use for civilian nuclear energy. The latest update, the 2007 edition, was published in June of 2008 [3]. This book provides more than 400 pages of detailed information about uranium resources in a large number of countries. A long history of reporting world-wide uranium resource data with an indicated accuracy of between 1/1000 and 1/10,000 is believed to demonstrate that reliable resource data are available. The findings of the Red Book 2007 edition were presented for example in a NEA press communiqué [4] as follows:

There is enough uranium known to exist to fuel the world's fleet of nuclear reactors at current consumption rates for at least a century, according to the latest edition of the world reference on uranium published today. Uranium 2007: Resources, Production and Demand, also known as the Red Book, estimates the identified amount of conventional uranium resources which can be mined for less than USD 130/kg* to be about 5.5 million tons, up from the 4.7 million tons reported in 2005. Undiscovered resources, i.e. uranium deposits that can be expected to be found based on the geological characteristics of already discovered resources, have also risen to 10.5 million tons. This is an increase of 0.5 million tons compared to the previous edition of the report. The increases are due to both new discoveries and re-evaluations of known resources, encouraged by higher prices. (* On 26 May 2008, the spot price for uranium was listed as USD 156/kg.)

After reading such a declaration, most people will obviously assume that the uranium supply situation is safe. Why should one even bother to look into the accumulated uranium data or doubt these well respected international organizations with their large scientific staff? As a consequence, individuals and organizations with different philosophical views about nuclear energy almost never question the objectivity and precision of these data [5].

Unfortunately, as shall be shown in the following, the Red Book uranium resource data do not measure up to their indicated levels of accuracy.

In this article, the third part of The Future of Nuclear Energy [6], we analyze the uranium resource data given in the Red Book 2007 [3]. First, we present and discuss the overall world-wide uranium resource data and their evolution in Section 2. In order to investigate the basis for these data, the uranium resource data for the 10 countries with more than 100,000 tons of reasonably assured resources (RAR) are analyzed in Section 3. Combined, these 10 countries represent about 80% of the world's total RAR and 95% of those RAR that are most economical, i.e., RAR that can be economically produced at a price of < 40 dollars/kg. As shall be demonstrated in detail, the Red Book 2007 uranium resource data often exhibit amazing changes with respect to previous Red Book editions, with some of these individual country resource changes appearing to be totally unbelievable.

In Section 4 of this article, the long-term uranium supply situation and its consequences for the future of conventional nuclear fission power plants will be summarized.

2. World-wide uranium resources and their evolution

As highlighted already in parts I and II of this report, the authors of the Red Book do not ignore the possibility that "uranium supply shortfalls could develop if production facilities are not implemented in a timely manner." However, the media have essentially only reported the statement that "the identified conventional uranium resources have increased from 4.7 million tons in the previous edition to 5.5 million tons in the current edition of the Red Book." In the following, we shall analyze this apparent 20% increase in conventional uranium resources in detail. In order to do this, we start with the methodology on how the authors of the Red Book obtain their data and present the definitions of the different uranium resource categories.

2.1. Red Book methodology, resource categories and extraction costs

The authors of the Red Book describe the content and the methodology to obtain the relevant data in their own words as follows [7]:

"The Red Book features a comprehensive assessment of current uranium supply and demand and projections to the year 2030. The basis of this assessment is a comparison of uranium re­source estimates (according to categories of geological certainty and production cost) and mine production capability with anticipated uranium requirements arising from projections of installed nuclear capacity. In cases where longer-term projections of installed nuclear capacity were not provided by national authorities, projected demand figures were developed with input from expert authorities... The Red Book also includes a compilation and evaluation of previously published data on un­conventional uranium resources... This publication has been prepared on the basis of data obtained through questionnaires sent by the NEA to OECD member countries (19 countries responded) and by the IAEA for those states that are not OECD member countries (21 countries responded and one country report was prepared by the IAEA Secretariat). The opinions expressed in Parts I and II do not nec­essarily reflect the position of the member countries or international organizations concerned. This report is published on the responsibility of the OECD Secretary-General."

In Appendix 2 of the Red Book, a list of reporting organizations and contact persons is given for a large number of countries [8]. This list indicates that uranium resource data are a compilation of data from the different government agencies, sometimes supplemented by the data from private transnational mining companies. As large national and private interests are involved, the objectivity and the accuracy of the presented data are certainly not assured. Thus, the resource data do not represent the results of an accurate scientific analysis of geological data. Unfortunately, such possible shortcomings of these resource estimates and possible large uncertainties are not mentioned in the Red Book.

However, in absence of better data and in line with the required political consent from many countries, it seems that the editors of the Red Book try to encourage the different countries to provide useful and comparable resource data. As a result, using the US dollar as a universal standard, consistent categories for uranium resources are defined.

Unfortunately, a few comments presented in the Appendix 4 [9] seem to indicate that the Red Book resource data are not as accurate as otherwise stated.

For example it is written that:

  • "The categories are defined according to a believed level of confidence." Yet, associated probabilities for the believed existence of the resources are not quantified.
  • "The resource categories are defined in terms of the uranium recovery costs at the ore processing plant." However, no explanation on how this cost could have been calculated for "non-existing ore processing plants" in "not yet known environments" is offered. It must therefore be concluded that such estimates are highly speculative.
  • "It is not intended that the cost categories should follow (undefined) fluctuations in market conditions" [10]. This can only mean that cost estimates have been done independently from the mining costs. Not everybody will agree that the increased mining costs of the past few years, related among other things to the energy costs and in particular to the oil price, are just simple "market fluctuations."

In summary, the used methodology leaves some "freedom" on how the correspondents from the different countries should present their resource data. This "freedom" could explain some large RAR resource changes found for different countries from subsequent Red Book editions.

The uranium resources are separated into "conventional" and "non-conventional" re­sources. The conventional resources are divided into Reasonably Assured Resources (RAR) and the believed-to-exist Inferred Resources (IR). The RAR and IR categories are further subdivided according to the assumed exploitation cost in US dollars. These cost categories are given as < 40 dollars/kg, < 80 dollars/kg, and < 130 dollars/kg.

The non-conventional resources are split into "Undiscovered Resources (UR)," further separated into "Undiscovered Prognosticated Resources (UPR)" with assumed cost ranges of < 80 dollars/kg and < 130 dollars/kg, and "Undiscovered Speculative Re­sources (USR)." The USR numbers are given for an estimated exploitation cost of < 130 dollars/kg and also for a category with unknown cost.

For the purpose of this analysis, the data from the inclusive "< x dollars/kg" categories are used to calculate the sometimes more informative exclusive resource data with extraction costs between 40-80 dollars/kg and 80-130 dollars/kg.

A critical reader of the Red Book will express doubts about the quality of the data, when only roughly known numbers are given with an unbelievable precision of 0.1% or better. In this respect, it seems to be an ironic mistake that the best known numbers in the RAR categories are given with an accuracy of 1/1000 but the speculative IR and UR categories are presented with an accuracy of 1/10,000, although some progress has been made since the Red Book 2005 edition, when the claimed accuracy was presented with an accuracy of 1 part per million. Names like "Undiscovered Resources" and "Undiscovered Speculative Resources" should leave the reader with serious doubts about the reliability of the claims made concerning the amount of uranium available in these categories in spite of the claimed accuracy.

A more accurate assessment methodology would include effects from changes in uranium mining technology and its related costs, the quality of the mining equipment, the oil price, salaries, and the often ignored huge costs to repair environmental damages following previous uranium exploration. In addition, detailed information should be provided on (1) how variations of the dollar exchange rate have modified the resource data, and (2) how past uranium extractions have been taken into account.

We leave it to the reader to reflect on the question whether the used Red Book methodology results in accurate estimates for the discovered and undiscovered uranium resources.

2.2. The economic-geological hypothesis about uranium resources

According to geological estimates, we know that uranium is not a particularly rare metal. Expressed in the words of the relevant WNA document, we are being informed that [11]:

"Uranium is a relatively common metal, found in rocks and seawater. Economic concentra­tions of it are not uncommon."

Table 1 shows uranium or grade concentrations for different minerals in the earth crust and in sea water given in parts per million (ppm).


Table 1: The numbers are taken from the August 2009 version of the WNA information paper "Supply of uranium" [11]. The * in the WNA document is associated with very low grade uranium mining from the Rossing mine in Namibia. The document [11] states: "If uranium is at low levels in rock or sands (certainly less than 1000 ppm), it needs to be in a form which is easily separated for those concentrations to be called 'ore' - that is, implying that the uranium can be recovered economically. This means that it needs to be in a mineral form that can easily be dissolved by sulfuric acid or sodium carbonate leaching."

It is generally accepted that the producible amount of uranium increases dramatically if ore with a lower concentration of uranium can be economically mined. K.S. Deffeyes and I.D. MacGregor [12] have estimated by generally accepted geological methods that this trend must continue until the average uranium concentration of 2.8 ppm is reached. According to Deffeyes and MacGregor, one may expect that the amount of extractable uranium increases approximately by a factor of 300, if the grade of economically exploitable ore decreases by one order of magnitude. However, they also added the usually ignored statement that:

No rigorous statistical basis exists for expecting a log-normal distribution. This is just an approximate argument as the enormously complex range of geochemical behavior of uranium and its wide variety of different [chemical] binds [determine] the economic deposit. (The two words placed in brackets were added by the author.)

It is thus important to keep in mind that resource calculations based on the above methods may ignore important factors that limit the amount of even­tually extractable uranium. For example, one could imagine that a hypothetical super-rich amount of highly concentrated uranium ore exists a few hundred meters below surface. However, if these rocks are isolated from each other and from any other interesting mineral concentration, it can be safely assumed that sizable amounts of these rocks will never be extracted. Thus, in addition to the av­erage ore concentration, one finds that the amount of uranium available at this concentration, its chemical composition, and its surroundings play all an important role in a potential extraction and the associated energy cost.

A consequence of this hypothesis is that, no matter which growth scenario is being assumed, sufficient uranium resources exist in theory if the extraction cost is allowed to increase. It is usually added that the uranium price has only a negligible effect on the overall production cost of the kWhe. Arguments that, instead of the monetary price, the energy return on energy invested (EROEI) needs to be taken into account are usually dismissed with the comment that current uranium extraction costs are small compared to other production costs, and the very-low grade Rossing mine in Namibia is often given as a proof that we can still go a long way before the extraction cost will become a determining factor [13].

However, rather than exchanging endless arguments about the limitations of this approach, we propose to use the Red Book uranium resource data base to test the above hypothesis, called in the following the economic-geological hypothesis. This can be done fairly easily as the Red Book quantifies the RAR and IR uranium resources according to almost equal and increasing cost intervals of 40 and 50 dollars, respectively. According to this hypothesis, much larger uranium quantities are expected for the higher cost categories.

The economically-extractable-uranium-resources-are-limited hypothesis

An alternative hypothesis assumes that uranium is no different in its use in the energy sector in comparison with any other energy resource. Consequently, the "law of diminishing returns" applies also to uranium, and the economical exploitation and use of uranium can be determined in accordance with the following arguments:

  • The usage of uranium starts with the finding and exploitation of the big and high-ore grade uranium deposits.
  • Once the "big elephants" have been hunted, one turns to smaller and lower-grade uranium deposits. One tries to keep on going by developing and using better and better technology.
  • Eventually, the interesting deposits at the mine become too small and too diluted, and the production is terminated. This moment is reached in a similar way for oil and for uranium, and according to the argument of M. K. Hubbert [14] when he replied to David Nissen of Exxon:

"[T]here is a different and more fundamental cost that is independent of the monetary price. That is the energy cost of exploration and production. So long as oil is used as a source of energy, when the energy cost of recovering a barrel of oil becomes greater than the energy content of the oil, production will cease no matter what the monetary price may be."

While this hypothesis is theoretically very attractive, it cannot be used easily to make a quantitative test. For example, the energy extraction cost and the total energy cost are rarely given in the required detail. Furthermore, it is essentially impossible to quantify the potential "next round of technological improvements." For example, breakthrough new reactor concepts, based on the fuel breeding concept and including perhaps the use of thorium, and much better (but so far unknown) uranium extraction techniques can always be imagined. Thus, as is the case with the peak oil hypothesis, most people will accept this idea only, once an exact peak date for the nuclear energy can be determined. This, of course, can be done only some time after the final decline has become obvious.

2.3. Evolution of uranium resources according to the Red Book

2.3.1. A consistency check of the NEA press declaration

We now turn to two claims made in the 2007 edition of the Red Book (abbreviated in the following as RB07) and transmitted by their own press declaration to the media [4]:

  1. "There is enough uranium known to exist to fuel the world's fleet of nuclear reactors at current consumption rates for at least a century, according to the latest edition of the world reference on uranium published today. Uranium 2007: Resources, Production and De­mand, also known as the Red Book, estimates the identified amount of conventional uranium resources which can be mined for less than USD 130/kg to be about 5.5 million tons, up from the 4.7 million tons reported in 2005."
  2. "The currently identified resources are adequate to meet the expansion of nuclear power plants from 372 GWe in 2007 to between 509 GWe (+38%) and 663 GWe (+80%) by 2030."

Let us recalculate the numbers presented to the media. The yearly uranium needs to operate the existing nuclear power plants with the 2009 capacity of 370 GWe are about 65,000 tons. As it is claimed above and quantified in the RB07, the conventional uranium resources of 5.5 million tons are the sum of the RAR (< 130 dollars/kg), given as 3,338,300 tons, and the believed to exist IR (< 130 dollars/kg), given as 2,130,600 tons. Following this logic, a simple division tells us that these 5.5 million tons of uranium resources, at constant usage, are sufficient at best for 85 years or "almost a century" and not for "at least a century"!

Furthermore, a more cautious press declaration would perhaps state that:

"The well known RAR numbers have remained roughly constant during the past years, and these known resources are sufficient to operate the current world's reactor fleet for about 51 years. However, since the amount of believed-to-exist IR resources has increased by about 700,000 tons, another 34 years can be added if this additional IR uranium can indeed be extracted."

Next, we can ask ourselves how long the conventional uranium resources will last under the conditions of +38% or +80% growth scenarios between 2007 and 2030.

Given these growth assumptions, the yearly natural uranium requirements would be between 90,000 tons/year and 115,000 tons/year by the year 2030.

For simplicity, we may assume that the above increase is to be achieved with an average 23 year growth rate of +1.4%/year and +2.5%/year, respectively. Following this growth model, between 1.76 and 2.02 million tons of uranium will have been used already by the year 2030. By the year 2030, the world reactor fleet will need between 90,000 tons/year and 115,000 tons/year. If one assumes furthermore the unlikely case that nuclear energy will remain constant after 2030, the claimed conventional uranium resources from 2007 could thus fuel the 509 GWe power plants scenario up to the year 2071 and the 663 GWe scenario up to the year 2060. Consequently, one finds that the operating life-span of the reactors built during the years 2020 to 2030 will be limited by the amount of identified fuels and not by the expected 60 year life-time.

These simple examples show that the claims made in the NEA press declaration are not justified by their own data, as documented in RB07.

2.3.2. A 20% increase of conventional uranium resources?

As the reported increase of conventional uranium resources between 2005 and 2007 is relatively large, it might be interesting to learn, where and in which price category the increase has happened. Furthermore, one might be curious to see, how the reduced dollar value and the increased mining costs are reflected in the pseudo-precise resource data, and whether a reduction accounting for the yearly uranium extraction is included for the different countries.

We first present, Tables 2-5, the world total resource estimates for the different categories and their evolution as given in the last 4 Red Book editions from 2001, 2003, 2005, and 2007, respectively [15]. In order to simplify the discussion, the numbers are recalculated such that the uranium amounts for a given cost interval can be compared. Table 2 shows the evolution of the conven­tional resources since 2001. As one can see, the always highlighted huge increase is essentially only associated with changes in the undiscovered-but-believed-to-exist IR resources. Fur­thermore, the presented RAR data do not indicate that the yearly uranium extraction of roughly 40,000 tons has been taken into account. Tables 3 and 4 show the corresponding evolutions for the RAR and IR categories, split according to the estimated extraction cost range.


Table 2: Evolution of the conventional uranium resources split into the reasonably assured resource (RAR) and the inferred resource (IR) categories from the latest four Red Book editions. Especially remarkable is the fact that the RAR numbers have increased by only a small amount and remained essentially unchanged since 2003. Hence the claimed large increase in conventional uranium resources since 2001 and especially during the past 4 years is only based on an increase in the IR numbers.


Table 3: Evolution of the reasonably assured resource (RAR) category from the latest four Red Book editions. Especially remarkable is that the highest uranium numbers are found in the lowest cost category and this category has, after regular large increases, suddenly decreased since 2005 by about 180,000 tons.

The RAR numbers, even though claimed to be known with incredible precision, fluc­tuate by a large amount. The drop of 180,000 tons in the cheapest and best understood < 40 dollars/kg category between 2005 and 2007 is remarkable, and more details about this reduction will be given in Section 3.

Ups and downs of up to ±10% may appear reasonable. For example, one might expect that inflation moves some resources from a cheaper to a more expensive category. Such an explanation, however, would also require that a certain amount be moved out of the highest cost category into a yet more expensive category.

Next we turn to more speculative uranium resources. In Table 4, the not-yet-found-but-believed-to-exist IR uranium data are presented. Especially suspicious is the large increase of 400,000 tons in the < 40 dollars/kg IR category. This increase can be compared with the corresponding RAR numbers from Table 3, which decreased during the same period by 180,000 tons.

The situation becomes even more suspicious when one compares the evolution of the IR category during the past six years from 2001 to 2007. For example, the < 40 dollars/kg IR category increased by a factor of 2.2, and the 40-80 dollars/kg category increased by a factor of 3.5. In comparison, the amount in the 80-130 dollars/kg category changed by only a factor of 1.3. Finally, one can compare the evolution of the conventional resources in the RAR category and the more speculative IR category. As mentioned already, large exploration efforts during the past years have left the total RAR numbers essentially unchanged but have increased the believed-to-exist IR figure by a large amount. This means that the claimed increase from 2005 to 2007 in the conventional uranium resources is not based on real discoveries, but on an unexplained hope factor associated with the IR deposits that remain to possibly be discovered.

More details about these changes will be discussed in the individual country analysis below.


Table 4: Evolution of the not-yet-discovered-but-believed-to-exist IR uranium resources as given in the last four editions of the Red Book. Remarkable is the claim that the cheaper cost categories increased by a large amount, whereas the highest cost category has even decreased.

Table 5 shows the evolution of the undiscovered prognosticated and speculative UPR and USR resource categories. In contrast to the increase from 2003 to 2007 in the conventional IR resources, only relatively minor changes are claimed for the even more uncertain UPR and USR resources.


Table 5: Evolution of the undiscovered prognosticated UPR and speculative USR uranium resources according to the past four Red Book editions. In comparison to the large relative changes in the IR data, the numbers presented show a surprising stability.

One finds from Tables 3-5 that the uranium resources in the RAR, IR, and UPR categories decrease for the higher cost intervals. Furthermore, one observes that the estimated world RAR, IR, and UPR numbers have changed in peculiar and unnatural ways.

Consequently, the overall uranium resource data and their evolution are in contradiction with the economic-geological hypothesis presented in Section 2.2.

Furthermore, with inflation effects being ignored, one would expect that the changes of the uranium quantities in the RAR, IR, and UPR categories should follow similar patterns. As the uranium resource data do not confirm such expectations, one is left with the conclusion that the true quality of the presented uranium data is considerably poorer than claimed by the Red Book.

3. Evolution of uranium resources in selected countries

In order to understand how and where uranium resources have changed during the past few years, one needs to study the information provided by the correspondents from a few different countries with large resources. To this end, the Red Book editions from the years 2003 (RB03), 2005 (RB05), and 2007 (RB07) will be used. We restrict the discussion to those 10 countries that claim to have more than 100,000 tons of extractable RAR uranium resources for < 130 dollars/kg within their territory. Combined, these 10 countries cover a surface area of about 52 million km2 or more than 1/3 of the total land area of our planet. After at least 50 years of non-negligible world-wide geological research efforts, these countries claim to have 80% of the remaining known world uranium resources and up to 95% of the uranium in the economically most interesting < 40 dollars/kg RAR category. Roughly 90% of the total uranium extraction in 2007 came from these 10 countries.

Tables 6 and 7 show the claimed amount of RAR uranium resources for these countries in the < 40 dollars/kg and 40-130 dollars/kg categories.


Table 6: Evolution of the lowest-cost RAR uranium category for the 10 countries claiming to have a total of more than 100,000 tons of RAR resources on their territory. An especially remarkable change during the years 2005 to 2007 can be seen for Niger. (* The USA report does not offer a number for the < 40 dollars/kg RAR category. For this reason, the amount claimed in the < 80 dollars/kg has been used here.)

Some spectacular ups and downs can be observed for the three Red Book editions. For example between 2005 and 2007, the RAR reserves in the < 40 dollars/kg category decreased by 15% (minus 40,000 tons) for Kazakhstan and by 88% (minus 150,000 tons) for Niger. Drastic changes during these two years are also reported in the 40-130 dollars/kg RAR category for Australia, Kazakhstan, Niger, Russia, and the Ukraine. Despite the fact that the RAR numbers, especially in the < 40 dollars/kg category, are assumed to present the most accurate estimate, no explanations for the often dramatic changes are offered.


Table 7: Evolution of the higher-cost RAR uranium category for the 10 countries claiming to have a total of more than 100,000 tons of RAR resources on their territory. Especially remarkable are the changes from 2005 to 2007 for Australia, Kazakhstan, Niger, Russia, and the Ukraine. A comparison of these changes with the ones in the low-cost category presented in Table 6 is also interesting. (* As the USA does not report the < 40 dollars/kg RAR category separately, the amount in the 80-130 dollars/kg category has been used here.)

The changes for the yet unobserved-but-believed-to-exist IR resources offer even more interesting insights. As presented in Section 2, and in contrast to the essentially unchanged claimed total RAR resources, the data reported for the IR category at the < 130 dollars/kg price tag have increased by almost 700,000 tons between the years 2005 and 2007. Spectacular and unlikely relative changes for some countries can be observed from Table 8, where we present ratios of the resource numbers found presented in RB07 and RB05 for two IR cost categories and for the UPR category. An especially remarkable increase is observed for Russia. It is claimed that their IR 40-130 dollars/kg category increased by a factor of 17.7 from 19,000 tons to 337,000 tons. The reported changes of the IR data for Australia, Kazakhstan, Niger, and the Ukraine are also interesting.


Table 8: The IR resource ratios as obtained from the Red Book 2007 and 2005 editions for the 10 countries claiming to have a total of more than 100,000 tons of RAR resources on their territory. Not all countries have submitted or updated these numbers for the 2007 edition. Especially remarkable changes are observed for Russia, where the category IR (40-130 dollars/kg) is now estimated to be 337,000 tons. Changes for Australia, Kazakhstan, Niger, and the Ukraine are also interesting.

As we have seen already in Section 2, the celebrated increase of the conventional uranium resources does not come from new discoveries of interesting uranium deposits, but from a new evaluation of the supposed-to-exist IR resources. This statement can now be made more quantitatively. The data show that this claimed increase of the IR resources comes essentially only from Russia (from 40,652 tons to 373,300 tons), Australia (from 396,000 tons to 518,000 tons), Kazakhstan (from 302,202 tons to 439,200 tons), and the Ukraine (from 23,130 tons to 64,500 tons).

A closer look at Russia shows that this increase is highly suspicious. Whereas the IR number in the < 40 dollars/kg category changed by only 15,000 tons from 21,572 tons to 36,100 tons, an incredible increase from 19,080 tons to 337,200 tons is presented for the 40-130 dollars/kg category.

Kazakhstan is another example of a country with drastic changes of its IR data. From the RB05 and RB07, one finds that the IR number for Kazakhstan in the < 40 dollars/kg category increased from 129,252 tons in the 2005 estimate to 281,800 tons in 2007, whereas the 40-130 dollars/kg number decreased from 172,950 to 157,400 tons. The very speculative UPR and UPS data for Kazakhstan remained essentially unchanged.

As discussed in Parts I and II of this report [6], the evolution of uranium mining in Kazakhstan is of particular importance to avoid a world uranium supply shortage during the coming 5-10 years. It is claimed that, provided enough investments in the mining sector are done, this country can triple its uranium extraction within the next 10-15 years from 6637 tons in 2007 to 21,000 tons in 2015. A high estimate for future uranium discoveries in the low-cost category certainly helps to raise foreign interest in investments in the Kazakh uranium mining infrastructure.

Australia and South Africa also claim large increases, but their resources increased only in the < 40 dollars/kg IR category. In contrast, the IR data for Canada, Brazil, and the USA remained unchanged at their 2005 values.

The above examples demonstrate that a large percentage of the claimed uranium resources and their evolution are not backed up by geological methods.

3.1. Are some uranium resource data not based on geological meth­ods?

If one accepts that uranium resource data for some countries are not based on geological methods, it follows that other methods have helped to fill the tables of the Red Book.

Consequently and in absence of explanations, one is somehow invited to formulate ideas about why some particular countries, probably with the help from large mining companies, might be interested in presenting either too high or too low resource numbers.

For example, one can imagine that "sudden" increases in resource numbers, as observed for Aus­tralia, Kazakhstan, Russia, and South Africa, will help to attract foreign investments.

In contrast, a sudden and drastic reduction in the most interesting < 40 dollars/kg RAR category, as observed for Niger, could be motivated by wishes to (1) keep potential uranium mining competitors out of the country, or (2) prevent the government and the people of a country to become informed about the exact wealth of a mining company that wants to either reduce its tax burden in this way or dissuade the government from expropriating it.

3.2. Relations between different cost categories

We now compare the individual country resource data with the economic-geological hypothesis presented in Section 2.2. Starting with the lowest and highest RAR and IR cost categories of < 40 dollars/kg and 80-130 dollars/kg, one finds that some country estimates show surprisingly large differences in these categories with respect to the world average. For example, 53% of the world RAR resources are expected in the < 40 dollars/kg categories, but only 22% are expected in the 80-130 dollars/kg category, which is in strong disagreement with the economic-geological hypothesis.

The disagreement with this hypothesis becomes even stronger for Australia, Canada, and Kazakhstan. Australia claims 98% of the RAR to be in the low-cost category. Too high numbers for this category are also reported from Canada (82%) and Kazakhstan (62%).

In contrast, the numbers in this cost category for Russia (28%) and Niger (9%) are very low. For Niger, the uranium amount in this class is now given as 21,300 tons, which is about 150,000 tons smaller than the amount claimed in the 2005 edition, when 96% of the country's RAR resources were assigned to the < 40 dollars/kg category.

The data reported for the IR category show similar discrepancies between the world average ratios and the ones from individual countries. One finds that world-wide, 56% of the IR resources are predicted in the < 40 dollars/kg, whereas 13% are predicted in the 80-130 dollars/kg categories. In comparison, the correspondents from Australia, Canada, and Kazakhstan think that 94%, 88%, and 64%, respectively will be found in the < 40 dollars/kg category. The three countries thus predict that their not-yet-discovered IR resource fractions match almost perfectly the corresponding RAR fractions.

In contrast, the correspondents from Russia assume that only 9.7% of their IR resources will eventually be found in the low-cost category. For Niger, the low-cost IR fraction is given as 42%, and is thus close to the world average.

The Red Book uranium resource data show that the economic-geological hypothesis is not backed up by the data. This conclusion is strengthened beyond any doubt, if one believes that Australia and Canada provide the most reliable resource data.

The relation between the RAR numbers and the IR numbers is also interesting. For the < 40 dollars/kg category, Australia assumes to know about 709,000 tons RAR and expects to find another 487, 000 tons in the IR category, or 69% of the RAR number. In contrast for Canada, the RAR number is given as 270,000 tons and the IR number is presented as 82,000 tons, thus only 30% of the RAR number.

3.3. Uranium mining and its effect on resource data

Finally, we would like to see how uranium extraction, claimed to be known accurately to the ton, e.g. far better than with a 0.1% accuracy, influences the remaining amount of uranium in the different RAR resource categories and in some selected countries.

For this investigation, we remind the reader that world-wide about 40,000 tons of uranium are mined on average every year. For many years and despite non-negligible efforts made by many countries, only three countries extract about 60% of this uranium and individually more than 5000 tons per year. Another 25% of this uranium come from three countries that contribute about 3000 tons/year each, and further 12% stem from three additional countries that together extract roughly 5000 tons/year.

Furthermore, the uranium extraction is concentrated in the hands of a few transnational mining companies. The four biggest among them: Rio Tinto, Cameco, Areva, and KazAtomProm provided about 26,000 tons/year to the world uranium market, about 59% in 2008. Despite the claim that plenty of cheaply extractable uranium can be found almost everywhere on the planet and that the extraction cost does not play a significant role, 66% of the 41,000 tons extracted in 2007 came from only 10 uranium mines.

The biggest mine today, McArthur River in Canada owned dominantly by Cameco, extracted 7200 tons of uranium in 2007, or about 18% of the world-wide production.

This number might be compared with today's stressed world oil situation, where the largest oil field ever, Ghawar in Saudi Arabia, contributes about 6% of the total world oil production. It might thus be more accurate to compare the fraction of uranium production from this one mine alone with the fraction of oil produced by Saudi Arabia and Kuwait combined.

The mine started only about 10 years ago and reached 7200 tons/year during the years 2002-2007. Since the startup in the year 2000, about 58,000 tons have been extracted. According to Cameco, this mine exploits the world largest high-grade uranium deposit with proven and probable reserves of 332.6 million pounds of U3O8. This corresponds to an equivalent of 130,000 tons of natural uranium, with about 65,000 tons assigned to the proven reserves as of December 31, 2008 [17]. This mine seems to be past its peak by now, as in 2008, only 6383 tons were produced, and the output of the first half of 2009 reported by Cameco on August 12, 2009, appears to again be 12% lower than the one obtained during the same period in 2008 [18]. If one assumes that about 50% of the economically extractable uranium had been mined up to 2005/06, the presumed peak year, one could estimate that, instead of the 65,000 tons claimed, only about 45,000 to 50,000 tons remain to be mined. The next few years will tell, if the decline rate observed since 2007 will continue.

The next two mines, Ranger in Australia and Rossing in Namibia, produced together 8000 tons of uranium in 2008, about 25% more than the McArthur River mine alone. Combined, the three largest mines produced 33% of the total and slightly more than the next 7 big uranium mines together. This fraction corresponds roughly to the entire OPEC share of the world oil production.

Thus, uranium extraction is much more centralized and monopolized than any other energy resource. In fact, if the world oil situation, with a few giant oil companies and a country cartel, frightens policy makers and most oil consumers, the uranium situation is by all standards even more dangerous.

We shall now analyze whether the amount of uranium extracted during the past years has some effect on the RAR numbers. For this study, we use the uranium quantities extracted during the past few years as provided in the different editions of the Red Book and summarized in a single table in a WNA information paper [16].

Starting with the largest producer country, Canada, one finds that the three large existing mines extracted essentially 100% of the 9477 tons and 9000 tons in 2007 and 2008, respectively. During the years 2003-­2004 and 2005-2006, the total extracted uranium is given as 22,055 tons and 21,491 tons, respectively. Table 6 shows that the < 40 dollars/kg RAR category decreased during these two year periods by 10,064 tons and 17,100 tons, respectively. As it seems reasonable to assume that the existing big uranium mines operate and deplete only the < 40 dollars/kg category currently, the numbers show that only 50% (2005) and 80% (2007) of the decrease can be accounted for directly. Two explanations are possible, (1) about 12,000 tons (2003+2004) and 4000 tons (2005+2006) of new deposit in the < 40 dollars/kg RAR category have been discovered during the considered two-year periods, or (2) the extraction figures are not adequately taken into account.

We now turn to Australia, the second-largest contributor of uranium. During the four years from 2003 to 2006, a total uranium extraction of 33,663 tons is reported, while the < 40 dollars/kg category increased by 20,000 tons in accordance with Table 6. As Australia does not claim to have significant amounts of uranium in the 40-­80 dollars/kg and 80-130 dollars/kg RAR categories, one concludes again that essentially all of the extracted uranium came from the < 40 dollars/kg RAR category. Consequently, the new findings in this category from 2003 to 2006 must have been about 54,000 tons. However, such large new uranium discoveries over a four-year period are puzzling as the other two RAR cost categories of 40-80 dollars/kg and 80-130 dollars/kg remained unchanged between 2003 and 2005 and even decreased by 8000 tons and 22,000 tons between 2005 and 2007. Thus, the extraction numbers from Australia are clearly inconsistent with the reported RAR numbers.

As a last example, we analyze the situation in Niger, a former French colony, that became indepen­dent in 1960. It is one of the poorest countries in the world with an electricity production of roughly 0.234 billion kWh (2005), corresponding to an almost negligible amount of 18 kWh per year and per person. Yet, the 3032 tons of uranium extracted in 2008 allowed to fuel almost 20 GWe of nuclear power plants in France and other European countries, which produced roughly 140 billion kWh during that year. Between 2003 and 2006, about 13,000 tons of uranium have been extracted from the mines operated dominantly by Areva, a French transnational nuclear company.

In 2003, the RAR resources were reported as 89,800 tons in the < 40 dollars/kg and 12,447 tons in the 40-130 dollars/kg category. These numbers changed in 2005 by incredible amounts to 172,866 tons and 7600 tons, respectively. Another drastic change is reported in the 2007 Red Book, where the corresponding RAR numbers are now given as 21,300 tons and 222,180 tons, respectively.

Clearly, the 13,000 tons of uranium extracted during these 4 years are not accounted for, and the Red Book authors do not care to comment about the incredibly large jumps back and forth between the < 40 dollars/kg and 40-130 dollars/kg RAR categories.

These numbers must contain a substantial fantasy factor, which can perhaps be explained with the misinformation hypothesis. This suspicion is further supported by Areva's problems with the real owners of the mines, often referred to as "Tuareg rebels," who (somewhat understandably) ask for a larger share in the profits.

In summary, the claimed "high-precision" uranium resource data and the known extraction data from the past few years do not match up. These and the other inconsistencies described in Sections 2 and 3 of this article raise suspicions about the reliability of the RAR uranium data.

4. Consequences for the long-term nuclear energy future

The analysis presented in Sections 2 and 3 of this article demonstrates that the uranium resource data, prepared, updated, and published every two years by the IAEA and the NEA in the Red Book, do not measure up to the claimed high-precision standards. On the contrary, it even seems that some individual country resource data are not based on a scientific geological resource estimate.

Consequently, fairly large error margins should be associated even with the reasonably assured resources (RAR) category. As an example, one could assume the RAR resource numbers reported by Australia and Canada, who claim almost all of their RAR resources in the low-cost category, to be most reliable. If this idea is applied to the entire world, one would guess that only the numbers in the < 40 dollars/kg RAR category are reliable and therefore relevant. As a result, the known uranium resources could be guessed as ≤ 2 million tons, corresponding to a resource life-time of just 30 years at the current consumption rate.

Such an evaluation would certainly discourage the idea of constructing new standard light water reactors with a presumed life-time of 60 years.

This simple-minded example demonstrates that more realistic uranium resource information is urgently needed. Such an analysis, clearly beyond the scope of this paper, would have to be based on a critical mine-by-mine and country-by-country analysis.

At the current time, however, the Red Book uranium resource data are the only existing and usable data base. These data, including large uncertainties, demonstrate that the economic-geological hy­pothesis is contradicted by the data. This widely used hypothesis states that more and more uranium can be extracted if only the price is allowed to increase. This claim is in total disagreement with the overall resource data and with the data offered by many individual countries.

Thus, one is left with the choice of either rejecting the Red Book data completely and sticking with an unproven hypothesis, or giving up that unproven hypothesis.

In summary, we point out that countries interested in the construction of a new nuclear power plant within the next 10-20 years should find a way to guarantee their needed uranium fuel for at least 40 years, before they invest perhaps up to 4 billion Euro per GWe of installed power.

The warning applies to all Western European countries, Japan, and South-Korea, which depend to almost 100% on stable uranium deliveries from far away. These countries should take one particular paragraph from the Red Book 2007 NEA press declaration very seriously:

"At the end of 2006, world uranium production (39,603 tons) provided about 60% of world reactor requirements (66,500 tons) for the 435 commercial nuclear reactors in operation. The gap between production and requirements was made up by secondary sources draw down from government and commercial inventories (such as the dismantling of over 12,000 nuclear warheads and the re-enrichment of uranium tails). Most secondary resources are now in decline and the gap will increasingly need to be closed by new production. Given the long lead time typically required to bring new resources into production, uranium supply shortfalls could develop if production facilities are not implemented in a timely manner."

Many other reports have studied the world uranium supply situation in detail. Even though most of these reports assume, contrary to our study, that the Red Book uranium resource data are largely correct, very similar conclusions about the short- and long-term critical uranium supply situation are reached. The list below provides references to some recent studies that reach the conclusion that the known uranium deposits and techniques of uranium extraction are not sufficient to fuel a nuclear energy renaissance based on conventional light water reactors.

The following three studies are from groups that favor nuclear energy. They find that even a small 1% annual nuclear power growth scenario will be faced with serious and unsolved uranium supply problems during the first half of the 21st century.

  • A report published in 2002 entitled: A Technological Roadmap for Generation IV Nuclear Energy Systems [19] points out that the known conventional uranium resources will only last between 30-50 years. Thus, a new conventional nuclear power plant, which might be operational in 2020, may only obtain uranium fuel until sometime between 2040 and 2050.
  • The authors of an IAEA 2001 report entitled Analysis of Uranium Supply to 2050 [20] quantify the uranium deficit with respect to the RAR numbers for different scenarios about the future use of nuclear fission energy. The estimated deficit is given in units of millions of tons of uranium. Many details about the potential contributions of uranium from a large number of unconventional resources are presented in that report (Section 5), and especially the remarks about sea water uranium are remarkable: "Research on extracting uranium from sea water will undoubtedly continue, but at the current costs sea water as a potential commercial source of uranium is little more than a curiosity."
  • A 2007 M.I.T. study group concluded that "lack of fuel may limit U.S. nuclear power expan­sion" [21].

Other groups of analysts with critical views concerning nuclear fission energy have also studied the Red Book uranium resource data. All these studies, even if they assume that the Red Book uranium resource numbers are more or less accurate, conclude that a substantial increase of nuclear fission energy, using conventional light water reactors, is essentially impossible.

  • The Energy Watch Group report of December 2006 [22] with Dr. Werner Zittel and Jörg Schindler of the Ludwig Bölkow Systemtechnik GmbH as the principle authors conclude that: "If only 42,000 tons/year of the proved reserves below 40 dollar/kg can be converted into produc­tion volumes, then supply problems are likely even before 2020. If all estimated known resources up to 130 dollar/kg extraction cost can be converted into production volumes, a shortage can at best be delayed until about 2050."
  • The WISE Uranium Project Uranium Supply and Demand [23] contains some interesting graphics that relate the various resource categories from the 2005 Red Book with some modest nuclear growth scenarios and demonstrate the year when the uranium supply cliff will be reached.
  • In the article The Red Face Book published by Sanders Research in September 2008, John Busby analyzed the 2007 Red Book in much detail [24]. Many of the internal inconsistencies of the Red Book 2007 have most likely been pointed out in this article for the very first time. His presented conclusions about the near- and long-term uranium supply troubles are essentially identical to the ones obtained independently and with a somewhat different approach in the first three parts of this four-part article [6].
  • Another important report published in November 2007, The Lean Guide to Nuclear Energy, by David Fleming [25] has focused on many issues of nuclear energy and their inconsistencies. Fleming concludes his discussion with the statement: "Shortages of uranium and the lack of realistic alternatives leading to interruptions in supply, can be expected to start in the middle years of the decade 2010-2019, and to deepen thereafter."
  • Finally we would like to reference the report Nuclear Power - The Energy Balance by Jan Willem Storm van Leeuwen and Philip Smith and its latest update by Jan Willem Storm van Leeuwen [26]. This report offers, among other things, an energy balance of the entire nuclear power chain, starting from the mining to the waste disposal. It presents the hypothesis that "economically extractable uranium resources are limited."

5. Summary

Despite the shortcomings of the Red Book and its associated large uncertainties, some valuable information can still be extracted from it. Perhaps the most important results of our analysis are:

  • The "economic-geological hypothesis" that more uranium resources can be extracted if only one is willing to pay a higher price is in direct contradiction with the Red Book resource data.
  • Realistic uranium resource data cannot be obtained directly from the Red Book. However, a detailed comparison of the data from current and past editions of the Red Book and the often far too drastic resource changes reported, following some observations from this analysis, can possibly be used in the future to obtain better resource estimates.
  • The economically extractable uranium resources in many countries are most likely much smaller than generally believed. In absence of a Red Book document that measures up to its claims, only the RAR uranium data in the < 40 dollars/kg category are reliable and believable.

The analysis presented in this and the previous two parts of this four-part article [6] demonstrates that the current uranium extraction and the believed-to-exist uranium resources are incompatible with even a modest growth scenario of conventional nuclear fission power.

A debate about the future of nuclear energy must therefore be based on the two questions:

  1. When – if ever – will reliable and safe commercial breeder reactors based on uranium or thorium become available? and
  2. Will nuclear fusion power be always 50 years away?

The current situation and the prospects about these future hypothetical options will be presented in the fourth and final part of this report.

Our analysis can thus best be summarized with an addition to the recent warning from Fatih Birol, the chief economist of the International Energy Agency [27]: "We should leave oil before it leaves us," by stating that "we should also terminate the use of nuclear fission energy based on standard light water reactors before uranium leaves us as well."

References

[1] Cf. for example the Joint Oil Data Initiative available at http://www.jodidata.org/ and the related G8 declaration Responsible Leadership for a Sustainable Future presented at the G8 Summit 2009, 8 -10 July 2009, in L'Aquila, Italy, available at http://www.jodidata.org/WS_23.htm.

[2] The 2006 review Forty Years of Uranium Resources, Production and Demand in Perspective. The Red Book Retrospective can be found at the OECD bookshop http://www.oecdbookshop.org/oecd/display.asp?K=5L9N4JNZGN0W&LANG=EN. A free online version can be found via Google books.

[3] The detailed numbers are extracted from the Red Book 2007 edition, Ura­nium 2007 Resources, Production and Demand. The book is published ev­ery two years by the IAEA/NEA and can be found at the OECD book store http://www.oecdbookshop.org/oecd/display.asp?K=5KZLLSXQS6ZV&DS=Uranium-2007. Free online versions of some past editions can be found via "Google books."

[4] Nuclear Energy Agency press declaration of June 3, 2008 concerning the 2007 edi­tion of the Red Book: Uranium 2007 Resources, Production and Demand to be found at http://www.nea.fr/html/general/press/2008/2008-02.html.

[5] Cf. for example the presentation Long-Term Sustainability of Nuclear Fis­sion Energy by Byron Little presented at the 2006 American Nuclear Society Meeting http://www.sustainablenuclear.org/PADs/pad0606little.pdf. Other examples of the Red Book data use are reported at http://www.inea.org.br/UraniumavailabilityINEAr1.pdf and http://www.wise-uranium.org/uod.html.

[6] Parts I and II of this four-part article have been published at the Oil Drum, August 2009 at http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/5631 and http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/5677, respec­tively. The articles are also available at the preprint archive http://xxx.lanl.gov/ filed under Physics and Society at http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/0908.0627 and http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/0908.3075, respectively.

[7] Cf. reference [3], page 3 (Preface).

[8] Cf. reference [3], pages 383-385 (Appendix 2).

[9] Cf. reference [3], pages 391f (Appendix 4).

[10] Cf. reference [3], page 393 (Appendix 4).

[11] The numbers and the quote are taken from the WNA document Supply of Uranium to be found at http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf75.html.

[12] For more details cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_depletion and the reference to the publication by K.S. Deffeyes, and I.D. MacGregor at http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=6665051.

[13] For more information from Rio Tinto about the Rossing mine cf. http://www.rossing.com/. Additional information can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossing_Uranium_Mine.

[14] Dr. Hubbert (in response to remarks by David Nissen - Exxon) http://www.oilcrisis.com/Hubbert/to_Nissen.htm.

[15] The numbers are extracted from the Red Book 2001, 2003, 2005, and 2007 editions: Ura­nium Resources, Production and Demand. The books can be found at the OECD bookshop http://www.oecdbookshop.org/oecd/index.asp?lang=en. Free online versions of some past editions can be found via "Google books."

[16] The data are obtained from the WNA information paper World Uranium Mining to be found at http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf23.html.

[17] For details about the McArthur River mine cf. the Cameco report at http://www.cameco.com/mining/mcarthur_river/ and the WNA information paper: Ura­nium Production in Canada at http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf49.html.

[18] Detailed reports from Cameco can be found in the report: Second Quarter Earnings at http://www.cameco.com/media/news_releases/2009/?id=488.

[19] Cf. the Generation IV Technology Roadmap and the latest evolution at http://gif.inel.gov/roadmap/. The uranium resource problem is presented on page 13 of the roadmap document http://gif.inel.gov/roadmap/pdfs/gen_iv_roadmap.pdf.

[20] The year 2001 IAEA report: Analysis of Uranium Supply to 2050 can be found at http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/Pub1104_scr.pdf.

[21] A summary of the MIT study and further links can be found at http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/fuel-supply.html.

[22] The report from the energy watch group can be found at http://www.energywatchgroup.org/fileadmin/global/pdf/EWG_Report_Uranium_3-12-2006ms.pdf.

[23] The slides can be found at http://www.wise-uranium.org/stk.html?src=stkd03e.

[24] The Report by John Busby can be found at http://www.after-oil.co.uk/redfacebook.htm.

[25] The report by Dr. Fleming can be found at http://www.theleaneconomyconnection.net/downloads.html#Nuclear.

[26] The detailed report and some corresponding discussions with critiques by J.W. Storm can be found at http://www.stormsmith.nl/.

[27] This quote from F. Birol can be found for example at http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/warning-oil-supplies-are-running-out-fast%C2%AD1766585.html.

Thank you, Dr. Dittmar, for this closely argued analysis of the assertions contained in the "Red Book" and of the implications for potential power supply from uranium.

A few random comments:

WebHubbleTelescope's Dispersive Discovery model probably matches reality more closely than simply assuming all the big, high-quality deposits are discovered first.

On the accuracy of statistics,

it even seems that some individual country resource data are not based on a scientific geological resource estimate.

My response to this is, "only some?" Industrial geologists have no reason to estimate resource in place beyond their employers' planning horizon, which may be 10 years. It's easy to imagine how some simple extrapolations applied to industrial geologists' results in a simple-minded way by various bureaucrats would give rise to the Red Book estimates. That scenario is lent credibility by the spurious precision of the figures - something that bureaucrats are prone to, but scientists (mostly!) are not.

As you point out, there are strong reasons for individual countries to either over- or under-estimate their resource in place. In addition to the reasons you gave, some strategic ambiguity about uranium resources will help keep potential enemies guessing about a country's nuclear weapons capability. No-one really has an incentive to be honest.

Finally, nuclear weapon risk considerations may help explain why there are relatively few operating mines, even if there are many economic deposits at $40. I imagine that governments would like to have accurate, reliable, and precise accounts of uranium ore extraction and production, even if they do not want to share that information. It's easier to do that if there are few points of supply rather than many. So I imagine that mining permits are very tightly controlled.

Dr. Dittmar has, despite repeated questions, still not analyzed the role of enrichment in the relationship between natural uranium consumption and LWR fuel production.  This is not a small matter, as a change in tails assay from 0.24% to 0.13% increases the fuel yield by almost 20%.  The shortfall he postulates is what, around 10%?

There are also a lot of unconventional uranium out there.  Green Car Congress just ran an article on uranium and germanium recovery from coal ash in Saskatchewan.  I calculated the uranium yield just from the CTL units at nearly 1000 tons per year.

Welcome back EP

while this is not the topic of the paper

but yes the shortfall appears to be about 5-10% without growth (3000-6000 tons)
(in agreement with many groups from the money making industry)

it could be avoided by opening the military reserves from the USA and Russia to the world

or by quickly building up SWU's to have another go with depleted uranium

but current worldwide plans fall short of this SWU capacity!
Russia has ambitious plans true but are they realistic?
I remember that Russia often had such plans during the past 200 years.

michael

No matter when you enter the process, it is always "20 years away" (be in 1950 or 2010).

Some interesting questions you may want to ponder, Michael:

How many SWU are used enriching 0.1% tails in Russia as feedstock for downblending HEU under the Megatons-to-Megawatts programme?

If this capacity is, post 2013, used instead to enrich tails at 0.35%-0.4%, how much of the 9,000 tonnes natural uranium equivalent from HEU would this replace?

I am not sure about what you are asking.
For example it seems that current depleted tails contain 0.25-0.3 u235
but details are not well documented (at least I have not found it in the Red Book.

but just in case perhaps you can first say if one should believe what
Russian sources are claiming (and on what base)

and second

do you think it is a good idea for western europe and japan
to become even more dependent on the good will of some
new russian leaders?

michael

I am not sure about what you are asking.

I asked two very explicit questions, Michael. What is so hard to understand? I will try to simplify even further:

1) Russia uses a portion of its enrichment capacity to upgrade tails with just 0.1% U235 to be mixed with highly enriched uranium for export to the U.S. under the Megatons-to-Megawatts programme. How much enrichment is required? How many SWU? (Google is your friend)

2) Post 2013, the Megatons-to-Megawatts programme ends and this enrichment capacity lies idle. If it is used to enrich higher assay tails from the west (0.3%, 0.35%, 0.4%), how much natural uranium equivalent can it produce per year? Is this less/equal/more than the current supply? (Hint: use Wise Uranium enrichment calculator)

perhaps you can first say if one should believe what Russian sources are claiming (and on what base)

Does Russia not deliver enriched uranium to the U.S.? Does it not use enrichment capacity to achieve downblending?

it seems that current depleted tails contain 0.25-0.3 u235 but details are not well documented

The U.S. alone has 260,000 tonnes of depleted uranium with tails assays higher than 0.30 wt-%, 140,000 tonnes of which is greater than 0.40 wt-%.

do you think it is a good idea for western europe and japan to become even more dependent on the good will of some new russian leaders?

Irrelevant to the discussion. Russia has been a reliable supplier of enriched uranium to the U.S. for decades. If supply is constrained in future, as you contend, then can Russia use its vast enrichment capacity to compensate? (Yes/No)

I asked two very explicit questions, Michael. What is so hard to understand?

Perhaps because they don't make sense?

It does not require the use of an enrichment facility to upgrade DU tails to fuel-grade LEU if you have weapons-grade HEU you want to dispose of. It's a simple physical blending. It may or may not be carried out at an enrichment facility -- I don't know really know those details. But if it is, it's only for convenience of security and materials handling.

As I understand it, however, there is indeed a good deal of idle enrichment capacity in both the US and the FSU, from when all that weapons-grade HEU was being produced in the first place. AFAIK it's still there; there just hasn't been any economic reason to reopen it.

It requires enrichment plant to manipulate isotopic composition of the fuel. This infrastructure, which will idle after 2013, is in question. So they do make sense, however are left unanswered by the author.

Author's ignorance of the role of enrichment (SWU) in uranium supply is rather striking, as it invalidates his thesis of any short term supply crisis. The author should had taken the SWU capacity into account once this omission was pointed to him repeatedly at hist first and the second part.

In the medium to long term, the need to recycle SNF will most likely drive politicians to a closed nuclear fuel cycle (and to mandate cleanups the dangerous and toxic ponds of sludges left after coal), which will solve any long term uranium supply issues for the lifetime of habitable Earth, much before we run out of the easily mined deposits, SNF, (and toxic waste ponds courtesy of coal burning).

It seems to me that the author starts with a conclusion determined by his doomsday mindset, and then he crafts his argument.

have a look in the mirror
(or don't throw stones when you are in a glasshouse)

read the WNA document I posted in reply to EP

and change your tone!

michael

The WNA document assumes a large part of the existing SWU capacity to be replaced by the new enrichment plants. If there is any need for more SWUs, these existing plants will be kept up and running - along with the new capacity, if the margins on SWU will be high enough (such as in the case of your postulated lack of fresh NU). This was already mentioned specifically in the comments at the previous articles in the series. Your respective response does not acknowledge this information.

Besides US HEU which is to be down-blended after 2013, there are MOX plants coming up which can manufacture MOX form weapon grade Pu from the pits. Since the last Obama-Medvedev nuclear deal this July there is more weapon fissile to be used in power plants, and the U3O8 spot price is below $48/lb and going down, despite all the new plants in the pipeline.

Perhaps all those people and companies who managed to build the powerplants, they just forgot to order the fuel? Hopefully this article series will reminded them to place the order.

I don't know really know those details.

Obviously. The Russian HEU contains U-234 and U-236 impurities that would prevent LEU created from simple downblending with natural or depleted uranium from meeting ASTM standards for nuclear fuel. Tails already depleted in U-234 are re-enriched to 1.5% LEU to increase the dilution factor of the HEU and thus meet the ASTM criteria.

The relevant questions for Michael are how much enrichment capacity is used to acheive this and how much natural uranium this could produce from re-enriching high assay tails in a supply crunch?

That is very interesting.  What is the source of the 234U and 236U contaminants?  The amounts in natural uranium are very low even compared to 235U.  Is the Russian uranium re-enriched from spent LWR fuel?

That is very interesting. What is the source of the 234U and 236U contaminants? The amounts in natural uranium are very low even compared to 235U. Is the Russian uranium re-enriched from spent LWR fuel?

236U isn't found in nature, and would have to come from spent fuel. The 234U was presumably concentrated along with the 235U during enrichment.

Hi Roger,

thanks for stepping in.

I agree with that.
there must be some "old" enrichment facility
but not much information can be obtained about
it.

again we need total openness also in this sector!

in addition to Mcrab :
we are not in an examination here!
Bring your numbers yourself and make the point you want to make!

like what happens after 2013 when the Russian delivery of
50% of the USA needs stops.

and how much of the USA military uranium will be delivered
to facilities in Europe and Japan just because we are nice people?

michael

we are not in an examination here!

Au contraire! That is precisely what goes on here below the line. Your arguments and assumptions are put to the test and you defend them. Think of it as an informal type of peer review (although I promise to be kinder than this guy).

A key part of your argument for a near term supply crunch is the assumption that uranium demand is inflexible, with power disruptions if it is not met. In posing both my questions to you I was giving you the opportunity to address this with some hard numbers, assuming for my part your good faith in wanting to honestly evaluate future uranium supply.

To answer my own questions:

1) Production of blendstock for Megatons-to-Megawatts programme uses 5.8 million SWU/year

2) The amounts of natural uranium that can be produced by re-enrichment of tails using 5.8 MSWU is shown in the table below:

Feed Assay (%) Tails Assay (%) Feed Required (tU) NU Produced (tU)
0.40 0.10 13,946 6,973
0.40 0.15 20,524 9,329
0.40 0.20 29,971 11,988
0.40 0.25 45,366 15,122
0.40 0.30 75,719 18,948
0.35 0.10 13,047 5,436
0.35 0.15 20,065 7,296
0.35 0.20 31,328 9,398
0.35 0.25 53,446 11,877
0.35 0.30 119,232 14,904

This enrichment capacity will lie idle after 2013. If there is a 10% (6000tU) shortage, will it not be not put to use, Michael?

Dear MCrab,

Ah you found this "guy" good that the internet exists no?
it is not relevant here but just in case the Fermilab didn't update their result
for the summer conferences and rumors are spreading that
their limit is not anymore what it was .. but who cares?

if you would read what I have posted
you can see the SWU requirements from your own favorite source
(the WNA or are they out of your favour?)

The near future supply shortage of 10% it all depends on Russia and Kazakhstan
and the USA. good will to open their military reserves.
I have always written this if you would read my papers
instead of blindly attacking.

50% of the world SWU and all under the control of russia

if this does not smell like a problem to you
fine with me

reality will soon tell!

by the way why don't you make you
prediction for the growth of the number of TWhe produced from nuclear during the next 5-10 years
so we can compare! my simple minded slow phase out was in chapter two

please add yours!
(and make your numbers for the uranium mining as well)
at least jeppen did

and concerning 2009 it looks like that very little new capacity will come online
Japan is the last hope to have the second year in a row without a single new power plant
connected to the grid!

michael

>>>50% of the world SWU and all under the control of russia <<<

This and other arguments of yours rely on stubborn ignoring what was pointed out to you by me and others, in particular that significant enrichment capacity will be retired. The only basis for such assumption is there will be enough fresh NU from mines. Again, you cannot have it both ways.

have a look at the WNA document

or give a better source and not your religious wishful thinking!

michael

A full 25% of US separation demand is expected to be met by just one new plant, built in New Mexico by Urenco.

Suppose for a moment that the Paducah, KY GD plant is only capable of operating at 75% of capacity.  This turns out to be a good thing, because the full US separation demand can still be met domestically... and the reduction in power demand (from substitution of centrifuges for gaseous diffusion) comes to roughly 750 megawatts.  This power is effectively "free".

I did indeed. If the SWU capacity is not retired, as in the case of the postulated uranium scarcity, the difference is more than enough to make for the difference, and at the same time Russia is going to have less than 1/2 of the world capacity. I am tempted to repeat you back something about a mirror or religious believes, but I wont :)

certainly I can not convince you with the facts from the
IAEA Red Book, the Euratom supply agency (a decrease of 30% in uranium demand for EU by 2025 or so)

so lets the hard facts of the next few year decide!

please make some predictions about
the number of TWhe from nuclear power
and lets compare your(s) and my predictions
on a regular basis with reality.

So we can do hypothesis testing!

the final proof.

so please make a prediction like I did in my chapter 2!

michael

certainly I can not convince you with the facts from the IAEA Red Book, the Euratom supply agency (a decrease of 30% in uranium demand for EU by 2025 or so)

If Europe has decided on a course which cuts uranium demand by 30% over the next 16 years by shutting down generators, that is very different from a decrease in nuclear generation due to a shortage of uranium.  In fact, it contradicts your claim of supply constraints.  However, I can prove (with cites) two things:

  • A change in enrichment practices from a tails assay of 0.24% to 0.13% increases the net amount of LEU by 19%.
  • According to some advocates of thorium, mixed U-235/Th fuel rods can improve uranium economy by 21% over today's 4%-enriched LEU fuel.

Together, this would increase output per ton of NU by 44%, which can account for a 30% reduction in NU demand all by itself.

Edit:  the increase in refueling intervals from the use of higher-burnup fuel would increase the total TWh from nuclear generation even if no new plants were built.  This is another factor which must be considered.

please make some predictions about the number of TWhe from nuclear power and lets compare your(s) and my predictions on a regular basis with reality

I'm not going to do that because I don't know enough about the policy initiatives in places like Germany and Britain, where substantial amounts of nuclear capacity will be affected by decisions having even less to do with the availability of uranium than e.g. the additions to the electrical grid have to do with the reliability of natural gas supplies from Russia.

On the other hand, we have seen a huge increase in nuclear plans in China, and France isn't changing course.  That bodes well for continued production.

You've claimed a near-term supply crisis, occurring by 2015.  I predict that there will be no supply crisis; LEU deliveries will continue to meet demand and average uranium prices will not exceed $80/lb (in 2008 dollars) over this time.

Dear EP,

what I "claim" using the public data is
that the number of TWhe per year from nuclear fission will go down.

sure, a supply crunch can be avoided if the nuclear power plants
close by earthquakes, some minor technical problems etc.

What counts (I always said and wrote this) is

how many TWhe will be produced and how will this evolve!

For sure, and I wrote this clearly as well and citing several times
the warning from the NEA/IAEA press declaration

"if measures are not taken"

you remember?

so far it seems that the measures are not being taken.

I also wrote that yes it can be imagined to open the military reserves for Europe and Japan etc
but this would in my view a kind of divine intervention!

lets see

of course one can imagine, like you do, what action needs to be done

but all the data indicate that this is not being happening!

so try to make a prediction for the future TWHe
in order to see what the different hypothesis are
and who is right or wrong in the data analysis.

sure there is some guessing involved
for you and for me!

michael

Nah, you didnt make much good case for uranium scarcity in previous parts, and no I am not going to present a fortune telling. Someone already did such "counter-prediction" in the discussion then, we can stick to that.

As someone noted then, your sources do not support your claims. This time it is the SWU WNA paper, and the unfounded charges concerning cheating with RAR <$40 in Niger, and with the total conventional resource base <$130.

The market does not support your conclusions either - uranium price is low and falling, despite the nuclear generation capacity is maxed out, and there are new plants are in the pipeline: about 5-10 new reactors coming online a year in the next 6 years.

Hence until you present facts that actually do support your claims, I think your conclusions are wrong (mildly put).

loiz,

what are you afraid of?

put some numbers out
and we can compare.

you do not like my analysis of the IAEA/WNA people.

thats fine

put some better numbers if you have!

whats wrong with guessing?

you might look like a fool or a visionary afterwards perhaps

just try your vision if you don't
you are just making statements not founded even by your view!

just do it!

michael

Michaeld, there is nothing wrong with guessing per se, however I would hesitate to call it "testing of hypothesis". The future of nuclear power is being determined factors independent of uranium availability, in particular the decision of politicians, such as was the case in India. I realized you try to present these factors as "proofs" of uranium scarcity, though it is patently obvious that embargo on India had nothing to do with uranium availability, and everything to do with the desire of political punishment.

Stick with the counter-prediction already made by someone in the previous show, if you like betting numbers.

loiz,

you are not understanding the point about India!

first of all India did not violate the NPT treaty
because they have not signed it!

the other big players did.
The USA leaders tried for some time to follow perhaps the rules with India
as yes they were ``in bed" with Pakistan!

your(?) latest Bush administration tried to change the obligations from the NPT
with respect to deals with India!

now, India run into the uranium fuel shortage
that is a fact.

the question is why the ruling class in this country sitting on thorium
and some uranium as well did not use their great scientific skills to
fill up the gap?

the warning from Russia came early enough!

Isn't this an indication that not all claims about
``uranium abundance and thorium breeding in Candu like reactors
or fast breeder approach are simple and solve all problems"

are just to naive?

michael

" first of all India did not violate the NPT treaty
because they have not signed it! "

Ah, well this makes a huge difference. India did no sign NPT so it is not in violation of NPT. So it is all right to use India as proof the world is running out of uranium.

Lets just ignore the fact that other nations would be in violation of NPT commitments if they sell to India. Bush would agree with you.

I guess you do not care about the NPT treaty or any other international treaty anyway
right?

I do!

so lets not ignore and put all those violators against the NPT on trial
a long list!

michael

I guess you do not care about the NPT treaty

That does not follow.  Hannahan stated what is, not his opinion of what should be.  It is not fair for you to leap to accusations when someone cites a fact.

so lets not ignore and put all those violators against the NPT on trial

How can a country which has not signed the NPT be violating terms it never agreed to follow?  Now, suppliers of uranium which signed the NPT to get access to the markets of the NPT-member countries would have been in violation had they sold to India.  loiz did say that this was due to "the decision of politicians, such as was the case in India."  That happens to be true.

I think Hannahan should answer for himself.

if you read again my statement it was a guess!

but as you ask:

>How can a country which has not signed the NPT be violating terms it never agreed to follow?

let me ask you EP. Have you read the NPT document?

if yes, you should know that NPT member countries should not do any nuclear related
information and technology exchange with non member states.
In contrast all help should be provided to countries who have signed
for the entire chain to make peaceful use of nuclear energy
including enrichment!

Nuclear is loosely defined and it is not obvious if Particle Physics is included or not

But for nuclear energy the statement is very obvious.

So please read the NPT treaty document (again?).

michael

I never said India signed NPT, this is irrelevant. India was being punished by superpowers, by embargo on everything nuclear, including the fuel. This is the main reason why they developed their own indigenous LMFBRs. It takes time if all the international collaboration was denied to them, for (in my opinion) phony reasons. There is nothing naive about it, the first of the four breeders will be up and running next year. It went fast, no?

Shortage like in India is impossible on the global markets, as we have already shown in this and previous discussion under your articles. What I find shocking however is your stubborn believe that you can just close your eyes, ignore gaping holes in your arguments, and get away with it, without any changes in your doom based position.

no,

but what you said was

India violated the NPT treaty!

for

> Shortage like in India is impossible on the global markets

sure like financial chaos we have now was also impossible
but just a few month later the world banking system is showing the opposite.

Thus lets wait and see. My hypothesis can be tested. you have nothing to propose for a test

again please make you prediction about the evolution of the number of TWHe produced
during the next 10-15 years.

michael

According to the WNA's The Global Nuclear Fuel Market Supply and Demand 2009–2030,

Of the three scenarios presented for world nuclear capacity up to 2030, only the lower scenario sees nuclear generation failing to increase above its 2008 level of 371 GWe. The reference scenario sees an overall 2.2% growth rate reaching 476 GWe by 2020 and 600 GWe by 2030, while the upper scenario sees 558 GWe by 2020 and 818 GWe by 2030. Both reference and upper scenarios are higher than in the 2007 edition of the report, reflecting the emergence of India and China as major nuclear nations.
http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/ENF_More_U_mines_needed_as_nuclear_gro...

yes and now compare with their fuel estimates
after 2016 (if Kazakhstan does deliver
if not well before!)

it is only consistent with the slow phase out scenario.

that is what I basically said in my papers as well!

so give the credit to the WNA for this simple observation
that fine with me!

the result is the same

you are inconsistent with your own information sources
(but you have not read the important ones!).

as simple as that!

michael

yes right and excellent WNA news!

read carefully what it says and make a consistency check
with my hypothesis and yours (unfortunately not public right now!)

michael

ps out of the article you link (and you fail to quote for all interested in objectivity why?)

However, although secondary supplies will continue to play an important part, the report warns that the period of primary supply being so far below annual reactor requirements will have to come to an end with a substantial need for new primary production facilities in the longer term. "Uranium production needs to increase dramatically from its current level," Cameco's Penny Buye, co-chair of the drafting group, told the Symposium. The market must ensure that conditions be conducive for this to happen, she added.

you are inconsistent with your own information sources
(but you have not read the important ones!).

I haven't a clue what this means.

ps out of the article you link (and you fail to quote for all interested in objectivity why?)

I quoted the paragraph that seemed relevant; you were asking for speculation about future growth in nuclear power. I don't think anyone disputes that if nuclear capacity increases and we don't move toward breeder technology, then uranium production will need to increase.

don't worry I added the part you missed!

read it again.

for the discrepancy between the 1-2% growth case hoped for
by WNA and others and the missing supply
or the impossibility to increase mining and tails extreactions
and so on
the consequences are obvious
only the slow phase out of worldwide nuclear is consistent with
the future mining according to current actions by the world elite!

I can not check with you hypothesis because you refuse to make one!

that might also say something: You do not have a clue perhaps?

michael

or the impossibility to increase mining and tails extreactions

Just ONE COMPANY has built about 4 million kgSWU of enrichment capacity since 2004.  They're bringing another 3 million kgSWU on-line in New Mexico and intend to expand the plant to 5.9 million kgSWU capacityThis is their investor report for 2009

Russia has signed a deal to increase its sales to 30% of the US market.  Note that this is a replacement for "Megatons to Megawatts"... which you said would leave a gap.  What gap?

There is a possible life extension of the Paducah GD plant past its 2012 closure date if re-enrichment of tails is warranted.  The estimate of the value of the tailings stored at Paducah is some $3 billion.

Does that sound like a shortage of enrichment capacity to you?  Does it sound like there is no capability to respond to a near-term shortage of LEU, or does it sound like matters are well in hand?

I found all of this with just a few minutes using Scroogle.  What's your excuse for not knowing about it?

Dear EP I do not know what is your obsession with the SWU's?

just to remind you:
the present paper is about the Red Book uranium resource data base
and the inconsistencies in it.

do you want to invest other peoples billions and propose a policy based on inferred resources
in Russia for example? perhaps if your job depends on it and you do not care if the money
and efforts will be wasted after you made the bugs?

If you think about the huge potential of secondary resources in the USA and Russia,
the numbers were in paper II. You did not object to the numbers right?
I wrote that one can imagine a "divine" intervention to eliminate the military stocks
and make all the necessary SWU a few years in advance?
So what's the problem?

I give you one:

does it make sense for a believer in Fast Breeders and Thorium breeders
to destroy all this HEU in order to keep on going with the
PWR's?

Can you google for how much HEU is needed in theory to start a 1 GWe
Breeder of type a and b?

here is another one:

Why should the USA and Russia reduce their strategic uranium reserves
to keep their competitors in Europe and Japan moving?

and please

change your tone!

michael

Dear EP I do not know what is your obsession with the SWU's?

I have told you several times:  more SWUs mean more LEU from a ton of NU.  For instance, going from a tails assay of 0.24% (typical of non-Russian practice) to 0.13% (typical of Russian practice) yields about 19% more LEU at the cost of about 60% more SWUs.

You are postulating roughly a 10% shortfall in NU production, based on 170 t/GW-yr NU consumption.  The SWU capacity exists to go to the lower tails assay, which would reduce the NU requirement to about 170/1.19=143 t/GW-yr.  You haven't even considered the impact of this upon the near-term availability of LEU.  I am still raising this issue in Chapter III because you have failed to mention it in Chapters I-II and dance around it in the discussion.

the present paper is about the Red Book uranium resource data base and the inconsistencies in it.

Inconsistencies in the long-term data aren't going to affect the short-term supply.  In the long term, the supply of uranium extends far beyond what the Red Book considers "resources".

do you want to invest other peoples billions and propose a policy based on inferred resources in Russia for example?

Invest billions?  The Russians are doing that; it's their billions.  If they think they can recoup the investment from sales, who am I to tell them not to?

I would rather buy Russian LEU than Russian natural gas.  It is very simple to substitute another supplier of LEU.

If you think about the huge potential of secondary resources in the USA and Russia, the numbers were in paper II. You did not object to the numbers right?

I recall that I did.  I found it impossible to follow your reasoning and asked you for a more succinct summary, to satisfy the group of skeptics.  We didn't get one.

I wrote that one can imagine a "divine" intervention to eliminate the military stocks and make all the necessary SWU a few years in advance?

And several people (including myself) have noted your obsession with exactly that.

Why should the USA and Russia reduce their strategic uranium reserves to keep their competitors in Europe and Japan moving?

The USA doesn't seem to be doing so, but Russia appears to be doing it to make money.  Russia is using its natural gas reserves to keep Europe moving, and I don't see you arguing that this is against their interests.

Can you google for how much HEU is needed in theory to start a 1 GWe Breeder of type a and b?

What are "type a" and "type b" in your lexicon?

I don't need to search for the amount needed for a FBR:  zero.  FBRs can run on plutonium, which can be reclaimed from spent LWR fuel.  The problem with dependence on a new fleet of FBRs is that they require about 20 tons of fissionables per GWe (per LeBlanc), so the ~600 tons of Pu in the USA's spent fuel inventory is only enough to start about 30 GWe of FBR capacity.*

does it make sense for a believer in Fast Breeders and Thorium breeders to destroy all this HEU in order to keep on going with the PWR's?

In case you failed to notice, this is one of the claims (that we must tap the HEU inventory) which is under dispute.  I would like to know this myself, but you are making circular arguments and evading essential parts of the chain of reasoning required to reach that conclusion.

and please change your tone!

If you mean "stop asking difficult questions over and over because they have never been answered to the satisfaction of the skeptics"... no, I will not.  I am a direct and literal person, and I am not going to accept evasions just because you feel uncomfortable.

* Given about 2400 tons/year of discharged fuel and guessing a discharge plutonium concentration of 1.0%, US LWRs are generating about 24 tons/year of Pu.  That's enough to start about 1200 MWe of FBR capacity every year.  At a breeding ratio of 1.03 they would run a very long time on the US inventory of SNF and DU, but they would not generate much excess for other purposes.  Disposal of the actinide inventory would justify it, however.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/nucene/fasbre.html

"In the liquid-metal, fast-breeder reactor (LMFBR), the target breeding ratio is 1.4 but the results achieved have been about 1.2 . This is based on 2.4 neutrons produced per U-235 fission, with one neutron used to sustain the reaction."

"The time required for a breeder reactor to produce enough material to fuel a second reactor is called its doubling time, and present design plans target about ten years as a doubling time."

So, using plutonium from just fresh spent fuel, we may start 1% FBRs per year (one per 100 LWRs). Then every 10 years, we may double up. This means in the first decade, we can establish 10% FBRs. In the second decade, we can add 20% FBRs (10% from the LWRs, 10% from doubling up). In the third decade, we can add 40% FBRs, for a total of 10+20+40=70% FBRs. In the fourth decade, we may add 80% FBRs, for a total of 150% FBRs.

Such a schedule would require reprocessing "hot spent fuel", almost fresh from the reactor.

Waiting even two decades to reprocess significantly reduces the specific radioactivity and reduces the number of radioisotopes to worry about (any with half lives <18 months are gone after 20 years).

I think 50 years is a good choice to wait before reprocessing. In which case HEU from weapons has value.

Alan

I did the calculation more as an illustration. In reality, you are right that we'd use weapons material or plutonium from spent fuel from the 70-ies or something. I think initial loading of FBRs are not a big problem.

I think initial loading of FBRs are not a big problem

I agree.

Alan

Such a schedule would require reprocessing "hot spent fuel", almost fresh from the reactor.

If I'm not mistaken, the pyroprocessing system meant for the Integral Fast Reactor was intended to do just that.  The paper I read on a test of fuel from the EBR-II mentioned the heat load from the fission products and the limits of the cell cooling system.  The beauty of purely ionic liquids (no covalent bonds) is that they are immune to radiolysis, and if you have to keep them hot anyway the fission products save you the need to run heaters.

On the other hand, we still have plenty of uranium and enrichment capacity.  If LWRs fell into disfavor, our existing enrichment capacity would provide adequate enriched uranium to start quite a few FBRs or LFTRs every year even if reclaimed SNF and decommissioned weapons material were not available.

the present paper is about the Red Book uranium resource data base and the inconsistencies in it.
Nah, we solved this one already. The resources were re-categorized to a different price brackets.
You have shown no facts otherwise, neither you showed evidence to support your claims about resource base <$130. You just keep silent on evidence, and loud on repeating your gossips, hoping you will get away with it.
This is clowning, not a discourse. And yes such tone is more than appropriate, given the silence of your response to presented arguments and evidence, which proves your suggestions as false, or non-sequitur.

Can you google for how much HEU is needed in theory to start a 1 GWe Breeder of type a and b?

This shows the author obviously did not spent enough time studying the topic which he feels so emotional about.
The answer for both these questions is NILL, even if you restrict yourself to uranium, ignoring all the bred actinides, Pu, Am, etc., which the politicians want to get rid off, and which may provide the start charge for either breeder kind. FBR did run on LEU, and obviously thermal breeders can run on LEU.

I asked two very explicit questions, Michael. What is so hard to understand?

You won't get a straight answer out of him.  I asked him about enrichment back in Chapter II.  I even gave him an enrichment calculator spreadsheet.  He failed to mention SWU anywhere in Chapters I-III or the discussion, and only mentions enrichment in this one in a quote from the 2007 Red Book.

The context of this mention is very telling:  it talks about dismantling of nuclear warheads.  This has been the consistent emphasis of the series so far, to the exclusion of all else.  It is patently obvious that Dr. Dittmar is not writing out of technical concern for the future of nuclear power, but out of his interest in promoting nuclear disarmament.  He is either attempting to fool us, or he has thoroughly succeeded in fooling himself.  Given his refusal to discuss separation in the comments, I have to conclude this:

  • He has already gone over the issue in his preparatory work (it isn't difficult, as has been shown).
  • He has found that it proves false his desired conclusion.
  • Since he is writing for political advocacy rather than technical analysis, he is trying to pretend that the issue does not exist.

My objection to running his series on TOD stems from the view that TOD shouldn't be used for political advocacy without a solid technical basis.  I think this series fails, badly.

Your aggressive tone speaks for itself.
You are not able to read what I wrote (or do not want to read it)
as well as you are not able to read official documents it seems.
You never come up with solid numbers and so on.
As a result you ask for censorship .. great!

but in any case coming back to the point you are talking about:

come up with hard numbers if they differ from the "official" WNA/IAEA documents.

here is what the WNA document says:
(among many other things!)

by 2015 about 50% of the required SWU comes from Russia!
with a planned large increase. Do you and others believe the Russian numbers?
Its your choice.

furthermore:

The trend in enrichment technology is to retire obsolete diffusion plants:
Commercial uranium enrichment was first carried out by the diffusion process in the USA. It has since been used in Russia, UK, France, China and Argentina as well. Today only the USA and France use the process on any significant scale. The remaining large USEC plant in the USA was originally developed for weapons programs and has a capacity of some 8 million SWU per year. At Tricastin, in southern France, a more modern diffusion plant with a capacity of 10.8 million kg SWU per year has been operating since 1979 (see photo above). This plant can produce enough 3.7% enriched uranium a year to fuel some ninety 1000 MWe nuclear reactors.

At present the gaseous diffusion process accounts for about 40% of world enrichment capacity. However, though they have proved durable and reliable, most gaseous diffusion plants are now nearing the end of their design life and the focus is on centrifuge enrichment technology which is replacing them.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf28.html

World Enrichment capacity (thousand SWU/yr)

World Enrichment capacity (thousand SWU/yr)

2002 2006 2015
France - Areva
10,800*
10,800*
7500
Germany-Netherlands-UK - Urenco
5850
9000**
15,000
Japan - JNFL
900
1050
1500
USA - USEC
8,000*
8000*
3500+
USA - Urenco
0
0
3000
USA - Areva

0

0

1000

Russia - Tenex
20,000
25,000
33,000+
China - CNNC
1,000
1000
3000
Other
5
300
300
total SWU
46,500 approx
54,150
67,800+
Requirements (WNA)

48,428
57,000 - 63,000
source: OECD NEA (2003), Nuclear Energy Data; Nuclear Engineering International (2003),
World Nuclear Handbook, USEC, WNA Market Report 2007.
* diffusion ** Urenco reached 10,000 in June 2008. Including the US plant it expects to reach 15,000 in 2012,

thus in summary

in the document are the answers to all your questions!

there is much more from UXC
like
http://www.uxc.com/products/rpt_usec.aspx

unfortunately for normal people the entire report is not "available"

http://www.uxc.com/fuelcycle/enrichment/uxc_EnrCapacityTable.aspx

again it shows that Russia will dominate the future!

good luck!

Michael

double post, missed a slightly important kilo prefix.

Hi
I am a layman on this, and aint gonna be in any heated debate on this topic.
Could I just make a statement which you might just all agree on, EP Mccrab and Michael:
Do I understand correctly from above comments:

the next 5-10 years one can expect about 50000 (+/-20000) kSWUs per year globally (majority in Russia)?
Which can according to Maccrab produce about 10000 tU for reactors per year?
Which is today already being done, and after 2013 we have to "hope" that this will continue...
Hmm, interesting... I hope those military guys let go of some warheads to reactors... or that we are gonna
start transporting like 30000 t assay from Us coast to russia, or by rail through Europe. The anti nuclear are gonna love to stop these transports...

Correct my understanding if I like wrong with more than 50%.

Regards unreliable suppliers: That's an argument for buying supplies many years in advance. Double one's buy rate for 10 years. Stockpile the extra uranium. Then you get at least a 10 year warning zone in which to adjust.

Given that uranium is still a small fraction of total nuclear energy costs can't this be done?

It can be done, and was done by investors. People started to hoard uranium due to perceived supply shortages, encouraged by many "savvy" traders, just to see the price to bust on them.

Some (all ?) Texas utilities buy 15 years worth at a time, rarely let pre-buy get below 5-6 years. Not stock-piled on-site of course.

"Uranium is too cheap to screw up" by running short is a quote from a Texas utility exec.

Alan

Micheald,

My personal hope is that you are wrong in suspecting /believing that uranium supplies are inadequate but I want you to know that your work is appreciated even by those of us who are skeptical.

You have done me a considerable service by presenting your views in this forum as by reading them and the comments I have learned far more in less time in regard to nuclear fuel supplies present and future than I could have by any other means.

Hi,

thanks for your comment. It helps sometimes to read such replies.

for
>My personal hope is that you are wrong in suspecting /believing that uranium supplies are inadequate

well I am not sure what to say about that.

yes I enjoy the current benefits of cheap electric energy in France and
if you want my job depends to some extend on this.

At the same time when I learned the basics of my job
(and I had the best teachers i can imagine) it was first of all
lets figure out what is right or wrong independent of if we like it or not

i found these quotes sometime later:

Science promised us truth, or at least a knowledge
of such relations as our intelligence can seize:
it never promised us peace or happiness
Gustave Le Bon

and

Physicists learned to realize that whether they like a theory or
they don't like a theory is not the essential question.
Rather, it's whether or not the theory gives predictions that agree with experiment.
Richard Feynman, 1985

so yes I have to deal with this no matter if i like it or not.

michael
ps I was kind of shocked myself when i realized who much
the so called honest scientific data or "official resource data" are manipulated and unsubstantiated.

Micheal,

You are most welcome!

And I do get it in regard to your Feynman comment-I realize that there is a possibility that you are correct.

I tend myself to distrust just about all the data I run across regardless of the source until i have an opportunity to hear the other side of the story-and stories such as this one have many sides and the real truth may not be known for decades.There may be things that can go wrong that will possibly prevent us from utilizing the low grade ores for instance.

But I STILL HOPE that you are wrong.;)

There sure would be a lot of red faces around here if you turn out to be the Hubbert of uranuim!

Dispersive discovery works well in the context of searching for resources that remain rather sparse within a larger volume. Varying technological search rates within the volume will give a peak if the average search rate accelerates over time.

This concept breaks down if we are searching for an ore like uranium that can exist in a uniform suspension at minute concentrations. In other words, we really don't have to look hard because it is found everywhere. So we essentially know that we can develop uranium at the low ore concentrations if the high concentrations never get found.

That said, dispersive discovery is likely valid if we apply it to the very high grades that occur very sparsely and a concerted effort is required to find it. This should show a classic peak according to dispersive discovery.

http://www.wise-uranium.org/ufert.html
http://www.wise-uranium.org/purec.html

The world average uranium content in phosphate rock is estimated at 50 - 200 ppm. Marine phosphorite deposits contain averages of 6 - 120 ppm, and organic phosphorite deposits up to 600 ppm.
World uranium resources in phosphate rock are not very well known; the following table shows approximate inventories.

9+ million tons of Uranium in currently known phosphate.
1.2 million tons of Uranium in phosphate

http://www.vulgarisation.net/imphos/download/jena/cisse_prb-15.pdf
Estimate of phosphate rock at reserves 3.6-8 billion, potential reserves 11-22 billion tons. (2004 est)

http://cornandsoybeandigest.com/inputs/fertilizer/0215-enough-future-pho...

THE WORLD HAS at least 15 billion metric tons of proven phosphate rock reserves that can be profitably mined today, the USGS estimates. At present consumption rates, that's enough to last about 100 years, Jasinski says.

There are another 35 billion tons of lower-grade and unexplored phosphate reserves, which are potentially economically feasible. Many of these deposits are too expensive to extract now, Jasinski says, but they could be developed in the future, as processing technologies advance and ore values rise.

http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com/2007/12/321-peak-phosphorus.html
asked Stephen M. Jasinski, the USGS phosphate rock specialist, for his opinion on this matter, and he said: "Phosphate production has likely peaked, but reserves will last about 300 years with current technology." Apparently, Mr. Jasinski sees the reserve base figure of 50 billion tons as the more credible figure in the long-term.

Various technologies exist to recover the uranium from the product stream, thus removing this unwanted constituent from the products and lowering the needs for uranium ore. Worldwide, there are approximately 400 wet-process phosphoric acid plants in operation.
Eight plants for the recovery of uranium from phosphoric acid have been built and operated in the United States since 1976 (Florida: 6, Louisiana: 2). Plants have also been built in Canada, Spain, Belgium, Israel, and Taiwan, see Facilities for Uranium Recovery from Phosphate.
Historical operating costs for the uranium recovery from phosphoric acid range from 22 to 54 US$/lb U3O8. These operating costs are by far higher than past uranium market prices, and most uranium recovery plants have been closed.

======
Depleted uranium inventories
http://www.wise-uranium.org/eddat.html

1,188,273 tons

========
Uranium in coal ash and has been recovered from coal ash
http://atomicinsights.blogspot.com/2007/10/uranium-produced-from-coal-as...

the ash pile being evaluated contains about 5.3 million tons of ash with a uranium concentration of 160-180 parts per million. The total quantity of uranium in the pile is thus about 2085 tons. According to the UIC ISL article the normal recovery percent from an ISL deposit ranges between 60-80% so the amount of uranium that might be recovered is about 1250-1700 tons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly_ash

In the past, fly ash was generally released into the atmosphere, but pollution control equipment mandated in recent decades now require that it be captured prior to release. In the US, fly ash is generally stored at coal power plants or placed in landfills. About 43 percent is recycled, often used to supplement Portland cement in concrete production.

Worldwide, more than 65% of fly ash produced from coal power stations is disposed of in landfills. In India alone, fly ash landfill covers an area of 40,000 acres (160 km2). As of 2005, U.S. coal-fired power plants reported producing 71.1 million tons of fly ash.

http://www.coal-ash.co.il/sadna/Abstract_Feuerborn.pdf
Updated estimates by W. vom Berg in 2001 figures 480 million tonnes in total, listing China with an estimated production of 100 million tonnes, North America with 83 million tonnes, India with 80 million tonnes, Europe with about 90 million tonnes, Russia with 50 million tonnes, South Africa with 30 million tonnes, Japan with 8 million tonnes and about 39 million tonnes for other countries.

so every year about 80-100 times the One 5.3 million tons coal ash dump in China. Using lower estimates about 1000 tons of Uranium in each 5 million tons of coal ash. 80,000 tons per year of uranium in coal ash. Go to the landfills which have decades of coal ash with the 100-200 ppm of uranium.

============
Transmutation is easier than nuclear fusion for energy production
http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/12/non-electric-uses-for-nuclear-fusion.html

=====
PUREX and other processes for using unburned nuclear fuel in nuclear waste
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf69.html

MOX fuel
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf29.html

A great example of humanity 'picking the low hanging most profitable fruit'.

-Rather than spend the extra we are prepared to pump the stuff into our atmosphere, polluting our childrens lungs and wasting a valuable resource... Way to go Mankind!

Nick.

AN:  Your profile has no e-mail.  Would you mind dropping me a line at the mail in the sidebar at my blog?  Thanks in advance.

There are a couple of curious omissions from this analysis. Firstly the uranium outlook in Australia has changed just in 2009. A new State government in Western Australia has given the green light to several new mines and South Australia's Olympic Dam copper-gold-uranium deposit aspires to be the world's largest metal mine ie bigger than any iron ore mine. All three metals are enjoying high prices which improves the joint economics. It is hoped OD will produce up to 19,000 tonnes a year of U3O8 for decades.

The other omission is the likely improvement in fuel burn rates for next generation nuclear. I don't know enough about the relative merits of different designs but some believe that after initial 'firing up' no new uranium may be needed for several centuries. They will use currently discarded nuclear materials. Those new generation nukes should be online within 15-20 years we are told, well before any global uranium shortage. We will have to trust they materialise because I see little evidence that wind and solar will provide enough energy for 9 billion people.

We will have to trust they materialise because I see little evidence that wind and solar will provide enough energy for 9 billion people.

Therefore uranium reserves are able to provide enough energy for 9 billion people, right?

Trust but verify.--Ronald Reagan(actor)

What is the sensitivity of uranium mining and nuclear/electric scaling to oil availability, both in absolute terms and at various price levels? I know this is nigh an impossible question, but the Rare Earth Metal presentation here last month showing increasing energy requirements due to overburden etc. reminded me again how central oil is. I.e. if oil is equivalent of $300 per barrel in 2009 dollars (maybe $150 in 2012 terms...;-), what would that mean to uranium production and grid capacity?

Hi Nate,

good point.

In my view .. this is not known or at least documented.

like I wrote in the article
the EROEI should be used for uranium resources
instead of an "unquantified" dollar value.

Thus in short some interesting work for oil drummers
to figure this out!

Michael

Michael, once again thank you very much for all your efforts here. I will take all your articles away one weekend to concentrate on close reading them.

I'd echo Nate's point about the need to know the energy consumption during mining. And we also need a chart showing the energy content of U ore for different grades of ore. If you can give me the raw energy content of unprocessed U metal or yellow cake in J / kg I could probably produce such chart later today.

We also need to know the energy cost of mining, moving and milling a tonne of ore combined with how this varies with mine depth and distance to the milling station - someone out there must know this.

Metal mining is a complex industry. It is very rare for companies to mine just a single metal. Olympic dam is a good example. Primarily a Cu mine where U was produced as an associated metal. And so to some extent the operator gets this for free. Allocating the costs (financial and energy) is not easy.

Euan

Hi Euan,
thanks!

for your question:

>If you can give me the raw energy content of unprocessed U metal or yellow cake in J / kg I could probably >produce such chart later today.

it depends on the assumption on how the fuel is used
the number for U235 (and U233 from Thorium) and Pu239 from U238) is straight forward
roughly 200 MeV / fission with perhaps 80-max 90% of it usable.

now how much of the natural uranium u235 is used in the fission process?

depends
I ``know" from the literature in standard PWR's for example
one starts with depleting natural uranium u235 content
from 0.71% to 0.25-0.3% roughly (it is claimed that 0,15% is possible now)
how much energy this requires depends again on many issues

next the reactor fuel start with 4% u235 enrichment roughly
and burns down to about 1%
during this process another 1% of Pu239 is building up
and this contribute to roughly 30% of the total liberated fission energy
the PWR's have an average efficiency of 0.33 for producing a kwh electric.

what is the energy cost to construct and operate the PWR
and eventually destroy it and bring the green fields happily back
from the mining (almost never done) to the waste storage not yet done

thus
probably "unknown" I would say but at least much larger than what the WNA etc claim.
are these hidden costs relevant
I would say yes at least for our children and theirs but
now? like for everything else in the energy sector certainly not

finally
the biggest unknown is the
breeder question

theoretically one can increase the energy content by a large factor
some claim 100 in the best of all worlds

I have not found much experimental evidence for any number close to that
so far.

Thus, in summary I find that the yearly fuel requirements for a 1 GWe
average reactor are a good measure

thus 170 tons of natural uranium requirement = 1 year fuel for a 1 GWe
power plant with 90% running time = 24*365 hours*0.9 = (roughly) 8 TWhe.

in the "first chapter" i had a long table with different country numbers

hope this answers roughly the question for existing and currently planned reactors

michael

Thanks Michael. There are a lot of different ways to approach the problem, and as a simple minded geologist I'd start by trying to get an assumption free measure of the energy content of the ore - and then start factoring in the mining energy costs, fuel enrichment costs, reactor efficiencies (fuel burn and thermal) etc.

According to this link, 1 pound of 235U has 3.7*10^13 J of energy. At 0.72% abundance for 235U, that works out at 0.587*10^15 J / tonne U metal (I think).

http://www.evworld.com/library/energy_numbers.pdf

Oil has 42 GJ / tonne
Coal has 28 GJ / tonne
Uranium has 587,000 GJ / tonne

But whereas oil and coal can more or less be mined pure, U metal cannot.

Very high grade ore (20%) will contain 117,400 GJ / tonne of ore
High grade ore (2%) will contain 11,740 GJ / tonne
Low grade ore (0.1%) will contain 587 GJ / tonne
Very low grade ore (0.01%) will contain 58.7 GJ / tonne

So at very low grade ores we're getting down to comparable energy content to coal - but then we need to deduct the U we don't recover and all the ore processing and fuel enrichment costs.

Hope I've done my sums right.

Rossing in Namibia is solely a uranium mine and helpfully publishes its energy use statistics each year:

http://www.rossing.com/performance.htm

It is also, at 350ppm, by anyone's reckoning, very low grade.

Excellent - thanks a lot.

384 GJ per tonne of U3O8 produced.

461 GJ energy used per tonne of U metal

at 0.035% ore grade.

If I did my sums right then the main thing to learn from this exercise is that the energy costs of U mining are trivial:

461 GJ used to extract 1 tonne of U metal from low grade ore
587,000 GJ of energy stored in the 1 tonne of U - all of which cannot be produced as useful high grade heat

This really shows that the real issue is not grade that makes the U ore but the mineralisation (which Michael mentions in his article). Uranium occurs in rocks as a major constituent in a variety of U minerals some of which are easily soluble in acid - pitchblend and uraninite. U is relatively easily extracted from these ore minerals by acid leaching. Obviously higher ore grades are better, but the energy return on mining suggested above shows that it is not the most important factor. It is the presence or absence of acid soluble minerals that is the key.

U also occurs in high concentrations in certain phosphate and silicate minerals - monazite and zircon + many others. But these are far from easily soluble. Rocks with a high abundance of these minerals may reach the 350 ppm U of Rossing, but would not be ores since the U is unobtainable. Herein lies the danger of extrapolating U resources from chemical assays when it is the mineralogy that is key.

What kind of leeching solution to use in ISL depends on chemistry. For some geology types acids are used, some need oxidizing solutions (typically for sandstone deposits), and there are other options. Mineralogy is the key-hole, the chemistry used is the key.

in my paper I mention some fineprints in the WNA document about the Rossing mine.

I would say it is not 100% clear what the chemical composition and the total extend of this
mine is. the official industry numbers are not the entire story
but difficult to get better numbers.

tried without success so far.

michael

Hi,

on a quick look this looks ok to me!
(don't have the time right now to check the numbers)

but again the way the enrichment is done and
the "breeding" question makes it a little more delicate.

at least right now and in the near future
the standard PWR reactors can be used accordingly.

e.g. 170 tons/GWe per year
thus 0.0071 U235 content reduced to lets say 0.25
thus 0.5% per ton of natural uranium
plus another 0.15 from the internal pu239
production and fission.

michael

Michael, this is all very helpful. Adding in the Pu breeding increment makes U look even more attractive. And the fact that processing can be conducted at the mine means that the concentrated energy can be transported large distances at relatively low energy cost.

But the key issue is that U mineralisation on large scale is quite rare. U, like H might be everywhere, but it is not much use unless it can be easily obtained in concentrated form from acid soluble minerals. One of the keys to the mineralisation process is the change in solubility of the U ion with redox potential.

Hi Euan,

I think you are absolutely right here.
This is what needs to be figured out now if one wants to go any deeper.

A big job I believe but the result might be rewarding
by who
(at least by some future generations who will have to pay less
for the damage we and earlier generations are doing
I hope!)

michael

Michael, Euan; thanks for this interesting exchange. It is not often that one can learn so much so fast in the TOD comments section which is, unfortunately, infested with aggressive boors. Thanks!

The breeding ratio question is one of the biggest.

I did some searching and couldn't confirm the figure I had from memory, but I did find this page claiming that current LWRs achieve a breeding ratio of about 0.55.  This means that the depletion of U-235 from 3.75% in the fresh fuel to 1.0% in the spent fuel should breed (2.75%*0.55)=1.51% plutonium.  The actual Pu concentration in spent fuel appears to be closer to 1.0%, so roughly 1/3 of it is "burned" (fissioned).  That would account for perhaps 16% of the total energy.

Advanced LWRs are expected to achieve breeding ratios of 0.7-0.8.  If they start with 5% 235U and burn down to 0.8% with a remnant Pu concentration of perhaps 1.2% (for 2% total fissionables at end of life), this would breed a total of 2.9-3.4% Pu and burn 1.7-2.2% of it.  The amount of energy produced from 238U bred to Pu could be as much as 34% of the total.  Even on a once-through cycle, stretching the total energy production by this much is more than enough to reduce raw uranium requirements by 10%.

Thanks for confirming my figures from the earlier papers.
(finally!)

thus if all 370 GWe today would be replaced
right away with the new better reactors (which will all work from the start according to design)
you are saving 10% or about 6000 tons per year.

in reality
not much
if people claim that a 1% increase per year of GWe is possible
from plant construction it will take a long long time before the reduction can be effective

before that .. well guess what some light will likely go out somewhere!

michael

thus if all 370 GWe today would be replaced right away with the new better reactors (which will all work from the start according to design) you are saving 10% or about 6000 tons per year.

No, it appears to be a matter of fuel element design and testing.  This would work in the existing reactor fleet as well as new reactors.  Here is a patent relating to the production of such fuel, and a discussion mentioning that AVERAGE burnups are now being aimed at 60 GW-d/t.  Such high average burnups could not be achieved for decades if existing reactors could not use this fuel.

before that .. well guess what some light will likely go out somewhere!

I point out once again the tendentious nature of your arguments.

The talk you posted is very interesting. Did you look at it?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/newreactors/presentations/250609/hugh-richards.pdf

now more sobering and all these ``tiny" radiation problems aside

here is what the WNA document says:
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf03.html

An issue in operating reactors and hence specifying the fuel for them is fuel burn-up. This is measured in gigawatt-days per tonne and its potential is proportional to the level of enrichment. Hitherto a limiting factor has been the physical robustness of fuel assemblies, and hence burn-up levels of about 40 GWd/t have required only around 4% enrichment. But with better equipment and fuel assemblies, 55 GWd/t is possible (with 5% enrichment), and 70 GWd/t is in sight, though this would require 6% enrichment. The benefit of this is that operation cycles can be longer - around 24 months - and the number of fuel assemblies discharged as used fuel can be reduced by one third. Associated fuel cycle cost is expected to be reduced by about 20%.

higher enrichment yes but not much change in natural uranium equivalent
what's your point?
or are you trying to..
>tendentious nature of arguments.

regards

Michael

The talk you posted is very interesting. Did you look at it?

Why wouldn't I?  I found it most interesting that the major "problem" was the heat output of the spent fuel making it impossible to seal buried canisters against water seepage using bentonite clay.  If the spent fuel is held in dry casks above ground until it is processed for its contents, this is a non-issue.

Hitherto a limiting factor has been the physical robustness of fuel assemblies, and hence burn-up levels of about 40 GWd/t have required only around 4% enrichment. But with better equipment and fuel assemblies, 55 GWd/t is possible (with 5% enrichment), and 70 GWd/t is in sight, though this would require 6% enrichment. The benefit of this is that operation cycles can be longer - around 24 months - and the number of fuel assemblies discharged as used fuel can be reduced by one third. Associated fuel cycle cost is expected to be reduced by about 20%.

Okay, let's take that as a given for the sake of argument.

higher enrichment yes but not much change in natural uranium equivalent

Now it's my turn to ask if you read your own quote.  A yield of 70 GWd/t is some 75% greater than 40 GWd/t for only a 50% greater initial enrichment.  If we calculate yield of fuel from NU assuming a 0.13% tails assay (centrifuge enrichment is cheap) and then multiply by thermal output per ton of fuel, I get this:

  Enrichment    Fuel yield 
  tons/ton NU 
  Heat yield 
  GWd/MTHM 
  Net yield 
  GWd/MTNU 
  Improvement 
4% 0.15 40 6.0 0%
5% 0.12 55 6.6 +10%
6% 0.0988 70 6.91 +15%

It appears that the advance to 5% enrichment is sufficient to offset a 10% decrease in uranium production all by itself.  The increase to 6% enrichment is sufficient to compensate for a 15% shortage.

Edit:  corrected error in 6% row and updated conclusions.

I think your 0.13% is the problem.
>NU assuming a 0.13% tails assay

currently it is more 0,25-0.3% no?

thus from 0.71%--> 0.25% not 0.13% (this is perhaps possible some time in the future
on large scale but not standard right now).

don't have the numbers at hand right now.
but it was somewhere in the Red Book

michael

The 0.13% figure is the value for Russian tailings from the Layton presentation which you have cited as a reference.  The increasing amount of centrifuge enrichment capacity, and its very low energy requirements (~50 kWh/SWU compared to ~2500 kWh for gaseous diffusion) argues that tails assays will decrease in order to derive more salable product from the same input.

Edit:  If you don't think 0.13% is a realistic tails assay, why don't you re-calculate my table for something you like better?  Your presentation could use some work, so I suggest you click on the subthread link for that comment, view the HTML source for the page, and copy out the HTML code for the table (search for the <table> tag, it'll be the second or third one on the page).  Edit in your numbers and copy the results into your comment.

Dear EP

If you think that this is relevant for the discussion of the
Red Book uranium data

you are invited to make whatever calculation you like.

in fact as I have proposed to you and others

make your hypothesis on the future of nuclear fission
TWHe per year and we can test who is more wrong.

for now we are in the discussion of chapter III
and it has not much to do with hypothetical claims of SWU's.

please comment on the point

are the Red Book data reliable
and if yes from which country
and so on!

Michael

I'm asking you about SWUs and related matters because you refused to discuss them in Chapters I and II.  They are key to your argument, so this omission (especially after all the pointed questions about those issues addressed to you in the last two chapters) looks more like an attempt to hide information which does not support your conclusion.

There are obvious reasons for the fluctuations in the Red Book values, such as changes in exchange rates to US dollars.  There are many sources of uranium not covered by the Red Book, such as Saskatchewan lignites and the associated source rocks.  Unless you do an analysis of the economic factors or go straight to the energy requirements for the process and associated equipment (which I understand is very difficult to do), you haven't come close to making your case.

Dear EP

look if you want to stick to technical terms
i have no problem with that.

I tried to avoid it as it complicates the discussion in a way not needed in my view.

but in case the claims on SWU evolution are well documented in the WNA paper
i posted. Lets see how much will be realized relative to the claims.

As I said many times "claimed capacity of mining are usually exaggerated
well documented in the WNA and Red Book.

you might argue that this is because the few big players in the uranium
mining industry try to use shortage for getting a larger fraction of the cake!

That might be a different reason. The result will be the same
a slow phase out!

there are other more fundamental problems as well.
as I said make a prediction to see how wrong you (and me) are!

as long as you are afraid of that it means that you
do not believe that to understand the fundamentals behind!

you might talk about theoretical possibilities

I talk about practical and potential limits from the available public data

you and others can blame the weather, greens martian invaders, human stupidity
who knows.

I say current trends do not allow even a 1% increase
and in Europe silently the Euratom Supply agency
publishes yearly papers saying
the use in europe will decrease by 30%.

As not many new wonder reactors will come online during the next 10 years
the possible fuel demand has to come from a slow phase out.

isn't that very simple and consistent with the aging problem?

michael

Would it trouble you to NOT add lots of line-breaks in your text?  It makes it come out very choppy and hard to read.  If you just let text wrap at the window margin everything will appear nicely when posted.

you might argue that this is because the few big players in the uranium mining industry try to use shortage for getting a larger fraction of the cake!

The evidence for this would be high uranium prices.  Where is this evidence?

That might be a different reason. The result will be the same a slow phase out!

But your argument is based on supply shortages, not hostile policy.  Nobody, not even your own sources, agree with your premise, and there are several different ways to avoid your postulated outcome even if you are correct!

I say current trends do not allow even a 1% increase

Not even with power up-rates and license extensions?

in Europe silently the Euratom Supply agency publishes yearly papers saying the use in europe will decrease by 30%.

Is this due to uranium shortages?  If not, you just admitted your whole argument is without basis.

As not many new wonder reactors will come online during the next 10 years the possible fuel demand has to come from a slow phase out.

That sentence does not make sense in english.

There are a number of plant license extensions and power up-rates in the works.  Thermal up-rates and extensions will increase both the power generated and the uranium consumed.  We'll see who is right.

for the line break (will try)

you wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------------
Is this due to uranium shortages? If not, you just admitted your whole argument is without basis.

>As not many new wonder reactors will come online during the next 10 years the possible fuel demand has to >come from a slow phase out.

That sentence does not make sense in english.

----------------------------------------------------------------

sorry, will try again! It was related to the situation in the EU countries only.
Not many new reactors are planned in the EU area but many will be terminated (UK, Germany some in France?
etc). Thus the Nat U demand decrease comes from decreased capacity in the EU area!

is it clear now?

>There are a number of plant license extensions and power up-rates in the works. Thermal up-rates and >extensions will increase both the power generated and the uranium consumed. We'll see who is right.

do you have a list for EU reactors? I doubt!

but again how can we see who is right as you have not yet made a prediction!

So far we can only see if my prediction for a slow phase out will happen or not.
We can also see if the Euratom supply agency is indicating if I am consistent with their prediction.
the answer is yes!

michael

ps for all those monetary arguments
do you reject the peak oil hypothesis just because the oil price today is half of its peak value
today?

Not many new reactors are planned in the EU area but many will be terminated

Which was EP's point - at least here in the UK the proportion of nuclear electricity will continue to fall for some time whatever happens as most of the remaining power stations are (nearly) life expired and no new ones have been built for decades, however this has nothing what so ever to do with uranium supply constraints.

You seem to want to have two mutually contradictory things-

1. It is not worth building new reactors because there will be no fuel to use in them (which suggests FBRs would be the way forward if it were true).

2. New reactors aren't being built (really only true in western Europe) so demand for uranium will fall so there will be a less mined so 1 must be true.

This is an utterly circular argument and while it is certainly possible that a short term supply gap might develop the large stocks and long fuel residence times gives a lot of warning and time to take action.

Also even if there is a serious short term fuel problem this is hardly a reason for abandoning nuclear for the long term unless there way more evidence that uranium (especially from coal ash etc) is truly exhausted at the much higher fuel price that more expensive electricity will soon allow whatever happens.

Looks right, nice work.

EP - I'm certainly absorbing your comments about breeding along with Michael's - but I'm starting from a position of relative ignorance and am trying to get my head around some of the more basic issues first.

As I understand it all reactors breed fuel, and improved reactor design may boost this breeding to improve the energy yield by up to 10% (as suggested by Michael here). Useful, but not transformatory.

Moving to fast breeder design would be transformatory, but the technology here seems to be elusive at present.

The main thing I've learned from this very useful exchange here is that the energy profit of U mining is vast (1200:1) and this obviously leaves vast scope for new mining and extraction techniques to be developed but this can only be done if there is a mineable resource to target. I need to read Michael's papers in detail together with some other sources on global U ores to develop a view on this.

As far as I'm aware, Langer Heinrich is the only new U mine to open in recent decades (excepting Cigar Lake). As I understand things, Paladin conducted a pretty comprehensive study of global U resources and selected this as one of the best opportunities - so this should tell us something about the state of the remaining reserve base.

http://www.paladinenergy.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=18

As I understand it all reactors breed fuel, and improved reactor design may boost this breeding to improve the energy yield by up to 10% (as suggested by Michael here). Useful, but not transformatory.

The transformatory advance in thermal-neutron reactors will come with the use of thorium.  If Shippingport can achieve a breeding ratio > 1.0 in a run lasting 5 years, doubtless modern reactors can exceed 0.9 even with the higher neutron flux causing more captures by Pa-233.  The fuel burnup will be limited mostly by decay heat and the durability of the fuel cladding.  I found this mention of a pebble-bed element achieving 100 GW-d/t using thorium... in 1966!

Moving to fast breeder design would be transformatory, but the technology here seems to be elusive at present.

I think the technology has been deliberately avoided.  The main expense with FBRs such as the Superfenix appears to be reprocessing of its oxide-based fuel elements; this requires nasty wet chemistry starting with dissolution into nitric acid, and creates a radioactive chemical mess a la Hanford.  The fuel reprocessing for the Integral Fast Reactor was based on electrolysis of metallic fuel rods in molten salts, which eliminates all the organic solvents and their radiolytic byproducts.  The US Congress (with a Democratic majority at the time) killed the IFR in 1994, despite the shutdown allegedly costing more money in refunds to Japan than it would have taken to complete.

The Republican party took both houses of Congress in the elections in November 1994, but the damage was done.

Incidentally, the metal-fuel fast reactors are remarkable for their power output.  From what I've read, the EBR II produced 65 megawatts from a volume roughly the size of an American football.

EP,
you write:

>The transformatory advance in thermal-neutron reactors will come with the use of thorium. If Shippingport can >achieve a breeding ratio > 1.0 in a run lasting 5 years, doubtless modern reactors can exceed 0.9 even with the >higher neutron flux causing more captures by Pa-233.

to add some important numbers here
the core started with 501kg highly pure u233
and after 5 years of operation (with 70 MWe power) the analysis found less than 508 kg of u233

do you have any evidence for this statement for this "can exceed 0.9" statement?
or is it a computer modeling number? or a guess?

Michael

Shippingport demonstrates the once-thru thorium cycle
U-235(20% enrichment) and thorium was the initial fuel I think, not U-233.
Of course this means that the rare U-235 is turned in fission products, so the amount of fertile material decreases, the neutron flux must decrease and a build up of contaminants must at some point reduce efficiency.

In this case IMO thorium extends the fuel in the reactor but how much practically?

With a breed rato of .4 as in a LWR you extend the initial fuel 1+.4+.4^2+.4^3...= 1/(1-.4) = 1.6 times.

Without a lot of speculation I would guess that Shippingport (1977-1983) ended because the initial charge was extended as much as it could be practically done without reprocessing.
A normal fuel rod lasts 1.5 before changing.

The Shippingports rods lasted 6 years that is 4 times longer than conventional uranium fuel rods or a practical breed ratio of
1-1/6.4 = .85.

Therefore once-thru thorium might extend uranium by 4 times but would expire with the end of U-235 (plutonium is produced from U-235 fission, so U-235 becomes the limiting factor, not the availability of thorium or U-238).

http://www.ats-fns.fi/archive/esitys_wallenius.pdf

Shippingport demonstrates the once-thru thorium cycle
U-235(20% enrichment) and thorium was the initial fuel I think, not U-233.
Of course this means that the rare U-235 is turned in fission products, so the amount of fertile material decreases, ...

No, as Dittmar said, it had a breeding ratio >1; i.e. it finished with more fissile than it started with. U-233 is in some ways a better fuel than U-235.

Without a lot of speculation I would guess that Shippingport (1977-1983) ended because the initial charge was extended as much as it could be practically done without reprocessing.

Apparently not.

[The experimental core] showed no signs of approaching the end of its useful life. It was obvious from the core performance that the reactor was at least a very efficient converter with a long life core. However, in October, 1982, the reactor was shut down for the final time under budgetary pressures and a desire to conduct the detailed fuel examination needed to determine if breeding had actually occurred.

http://www.atomicinsights.com/oct95/LWBR_oct95.html

to add some important numbers here
the core started with 501kg highly pure u233 and after 5 years of operation (with 70 MWe power) the analysis found less than 508 kg of u233

The starting fissionables for the breeding test of Shippingport were 235U, not 233U.  The spent-fuel assay found that the core finished with 1% more fissionables than at the start (documented in Nuclear engineering: theory and technology of commercial nuclear power among other places).  Your figures are consistent with the quoted breeding ratio of 1.013.

do you have any evidence for this statement for this "can exceed 0.9" statement?

Shippingport's achievement of 1.013 proves that 0.9 is possible.  Incidentally, fuel elements incorporating ThO2 are amenable to much higher burnups than those with just uranium.  The higher neutron yield of U-233 allows a chain reaction to proceed to lower total levels of fissionables, and the plutonium produced in such fuel elements is of much lower quality for military purposes than that produced with uranium fuel.

Dear EP
you wrote:

>Shippingport's achievement of 1.013 proves that 0.9 is possible.

well only if you talk about the LWBR reactor type
as the experimental 60 (or 70? one finds different numbers in the literature) MWe Shippingport reactor was

you didn't specify that.

If you put Th232 in a PWR reactor the 0.9 number is not related to anything right?

for the 501 kg of U233
i found it at this report

http://www.iaea.org/inisnkm/nkm/aws/fnss/fulltext/te_1319_17.pdf
page 177 bottom

and here
http://books.google.com/books?id=EpuaUEQaeoUC&pg=PA319&lpg=PA319&dq=bree...

page 317/318 the book says U233 mixed with th232 as reactor seed.

perhaps the authors of these papers got it wrong.
do you have a better reference?

michael

page 317/318 the book says U233 mixed with th232 as reactor seed.

It appears that you are correct and my previous sources are in error.

well only if you talk about the LWBR reactor type as the experimental 60 (or 70? one finds different numbers in the literature) MWe Shippingport reactor was

Shippingport was a standard, though early, PWR.  The same page 177 from which you took your isotope data says it was rated at 90 MWe.

If you put Th232 in a PWR reactor the 0.9 number is not related to anything right?

It's related to other light-water pressurized reactors... like Shippingport, but allowing for more compromises in things like the neutron economy.

Mixed fuel is quite feasible.  If you are concerned about uranium supplies, this is cause to look at thorium:

Calculations using the MOCUP code system indicate that the mixed ThO2-UO2 fuel, with about 5.8% total heavy metal 235U, could be burned to 72 MWd/kg using 30 wt% UO2 and the balance ThO2.

The higher enrichment of the U fraction (19.3%) would result in more tails (about 3.03% product for the U fraction) but the burnup is high, too.  Updating my table from here (which I can no longer edit):

  Enrichment    Fuel yield 
  tons/ton NU 
  Heat yield 
  GWd/MTHM 
  Net yield 
  GWd/MTNU 
  Improvement 
4% 0.15 40 6.0 0%
5% 0.12 55 6.6 +10%
6% 0.0988 70 6.91 +15%
5.8% + 70% ThO2 0.101 72 7.27 +21%

Hi EP,

thanks for clarifying with the U233 seed.
I am trying to find some more documents about this anyway.

I remember that somewhere I saw it was super highly enriched U233
but yesterday night I couldn't find the document again.

For the power of the Shippingport reactor

there are different numbers all around
from 60 MWe to 90 MWe (even 100 MWe i saw somewhere)

the PRIS data base says: official power rating
Net capacity 60 MWe
gross capacity 68 MWe

but different running conditions in the experiments
might have resulted in different power

concerning the scaling from
"small" to ``large" reactors
not only the core conditions and the local neutron flux and poison during the operation time
change!

Thus it is not obvious that the 1.013 number translates
into anything close to 1
for todays standard PWR or BWR!

michael

" Thus it is not obvious that the 1.013 number translates
into anything close to 1
for todays standard PWR or BWR! "

I presume you mean existing reactors converted to use thorium. Converting a 1966 Ford Mustang into a hybrid would be a challenge, and it would probably not perform as well as a Prius, but if it performed much better than the original car that would be a big step forward.

Neutrons that leak out of the reactor are wasted, and the probability of leaking out of the core increases rapidly as the core shrinks. That is one reason why there are no nuclear hand grenades. The other reason being that no one can throw them far enough.

Shippingport was a small core, so achieving1.013 is a remarkable accomplishment and should be considered the baseline for larger reactors.

The impact on the uranium supply would be huge, but since uranium is abundant and dirt cheap there is little motivation to modify existing reactors.

However, starting with a blank sheet we can do much better using knowledge gained since the 1960’s.

One more nit:  thorium, with its superior breeding ratio to uranium, is claimed to exhibit much more constant reactivity and thus can be used to much higher burnups without e.g. lots of burnable poisons.  Higher burnups mean more production time between refuelings, which might be profitable enough to make thorium attractive even if uranium remains cheap.

there is more in this as well!

you know that U235 or Pu239 concentration in the core is also important.

If you start with high concentration the "poor" neutrons
have it easier to find the way to the U238/Th232 blanket

I think most text books on "neutron" physics will tell you this
if you would bother to read the original literature (not easy in many cases
and time consuming).

I am sure we will discuss more about this in the discussion about
chapter IV of my report.

michael

you know that U235 or Pu239 concentration in the core is also important.

If you start with high concentration the "poor" neutrons have it easier to find the way to the U238/Th232 blanket

Which suggests the optimum size for a breeder is smaller than for a LWR, but this is more of an advantage than a disadvantage. If a power plant needs to have more capacity, multiple reactors can be combined — e.g. have ten 300-MWe units rather than two 1400-MWe ones.

I think most text books on "neutron" physics will tell you this if you would bother to read the original literature (not easy in many cases and time consuming).

Lots of documents, with an emphasis on molten salt and thorium reactors, are available from http://www.energyfromthorium.com/pdf/ .

>Which suggests the optimum size for a breeder is smaller than for a LWR, but this is more of an advantage than a >disadvantage.

not really! perhaps you know that small reactors are phased out worldwide now!
can you guess why?

anyway I wrote this because your statement before about the neutron flux and fission/breeding
was not correct!

thats why some good nuclear engineering books about neutron physics might help
in future discussions (about breeder either (Th232 or U238).

michael

These were the first constructed, often experimental, with shorter life span than later reactors. Also many small research reactors were closed down for no good reason, besides slowdown in nuclear field due to populist, irrational, and non-sequitor lamenting, such as your here.

Many investors understand the advantages of modular design, hence the respective companies are booming now. Some of them have already build many of such reactors in the previous decades, and are looking are wider markets.

thats why some good nuclear engineering books about neutron physics might help in future discussions (about breeder either (Th232 or U238).
Indeed, you would benefit greatly had you read some of them. For instance, you would know that FBRs run happily on LEU.

as the experimental 60 (or 70? one finds different numbers in the literature) MWe Shippingport reactor was

Shippingport was the first large scale commercial plant (1957).
The last core was the LWBR one (1977).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density

"Enriched uranium (3.5% U235) in light water reactor 3,456,000 MJ/kg"

So for unprocessed U, the energy content is about a fifth, or 0.7 TJ/kg.

Enrichment also requires energy - and the more energy you invest, the less U235 you leave in tailings. I'd guess that from an EROEI perspective, we leave much more U235 in tailings than we should.

0.7 TJ / kg = 700 GJ / tonne - way below what I just calculated. I'm guessing some of this may be due to the fission and thermal efficiency of the reactor - or I've made some mistakes.

No, 0.7 TJ/kg = 700 GJ/kg = 700,000 GJ/tonne. You said 587,000 GJ/tonne, which is about the same.

:-)

sorry forgot

the other energy costs of mining etc are difficult to find out

Storm van Leeuwen made an extensive estimate (the reference is at the end of this paper)
his study and numbers for the entire nuclear chain are under heavy fire (with even some kind of bad blackmail)

I like this approach but the numbers might not be accurate enough to conclude where the limit is!

I am afraid that really good numbers are difficult to find.
This is what pro and con nuclear people should request from the nuclear fission industry.

michael

drats - cos that's really the key to constraining what ore grade can be mined. There must be someone reading this that has access to this kind of data - energy cost of mining, moving and milling 1 tonne of ore.

Did you say somewhere what % of U is normally recovered from the ore. And what % of 235U gets fissioned in a normal reactor cycle?

Euan,

From working in various mines in West Oz, just the diesel consumed to get the blown rock out of a pit from a depth of 20m (80% of volume) to 70m (20% 0f volume)we used around 1ltr per tonne. This did not include energy in explosives (ANFO) any simple onsite processing of the ore (eg crushing) and transportation from the mine, also not included is the energy required to run the mine (R&M, spares, etc) and support camp (beeeeer! food), adding all these I would say at least 2ltr per tonne just to get the stuff out of the ground and on a train to wherever.

Interestingly enuf i believe the olympic dam mine is based on moving more than 4 cubic km of top soil (waste rock) this alone would take about 22 billion ltrs of diesel. (conservatively, using 2.8 for sg of rock to be moved, likely to be greater)

The Olympic Dam mine has an electric train to move ore. An anti-mine site say this: "Olympic Dam (OD) is already the single biggest user of electricity in the state (120 MW). BHPB say they will need to find an extra 650 MW - and their current plan is to source it from the (mostly fossil fuel) SA electricity grid or a (fossil fuel) gas plant on-site.

In addition, the company will use about half a litre of diesel fuel for every tonne of rock they shift. That's over 1 million litres of diesel fuel a day."

Unfortunately, Australia doesn't run nukes themselves. Btw, Olympic Dam ore grade is about 500 ppm, right? So they get half a kilo uranium for half a kilo diesel. I think this is a nice trade.

From another site: "Before ore can be mined from the expanded operation, 410 million metric tons of earth needs to be removed and this could take five years, BHP said."

This is only 1/30 of 4 cubic kilometers.

There is nothing like an EROEI of a particular uranium mine. There is an MROMI, conveniently called a profit margin - which is relevant, and indeed is used for the RAR estimation. The EROEI of a particular uranium mine makes little sense, as the energy utilization depends on energies invested and recovered in the whole cycle of energy generation, hence they depend on a type of fuel enrichment - cauldron, diffusion, centrifuge, or laser enrichment, how many SWUs, on the type of fuel used - ceramic, metallic, liquid, etc., the fuel burn-up in the particular type of reactor which uses the fuel, and other factors. Those factors mentioned have presently much larger impact on the EROEI of nuclear power than energy costs of the uranium mining.

Therefore your claim that "the EROEI should be used for uranium resources" is another example that perhaps a time better spent would be in a library reading up about how nuclear energy production actually works, before writing a series of articles.

try the mirror please
and change your tone!

michael

Life cycle energy and greenhouse gas emissions of nuclear energy: A review
M. Lenzen, Energy Conversion and Management 49 (2008) 2178–2199

This review paper published last year suggested ERoEI for nuclear power (whole cycle) to be around 5:1, which was surprisingly low for most informed commentators. There is much useful detail in this paper. Amongst other things, Fig 7 shows the U recovery rate variation with ore grade - >90% with ore grades >0.1%. <50% with ore grades <0.01%.

Lenzen documents energy consumption at various stages of the nuclear cycle - and you're right, I certainly need to read this closely to get my head around where the massive energy surplus of yellow cake gets lost. There are lots of tables in this paper but no summary chart that I can see.

The 5:1 ratio seems to indicate that he uses the flawed SLS methodology. I've seen it common among Australia's antinuclear movement - they really have to be desperate for an argument with all the uranium resources, the grid solidly based on happy coal burning, and still no nuclear plants.
I recommend to cross check the claims (I'm not going to pay for that) with this summary of other works: http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf11.html

My point here is that an EROEI of uranium mining makes no sense, as EROEI relates to the whole fuel cycle, in the rest of which much more significant differences in energy balance happen (see the document referenced above). Dittmar's quoted argument hence shows a shallow understanding of the issue.

This review paper published last year suggested ERoEI for nuclear power (whole cycle) to be around 5:1, which was surprisingly low for most informed commentators.

If memory serves, that paper said there was 5 units of electricity out for 1 unit of total energy in. But since generating electricity if about 33% efficient, the ratio should be adjusted accordingly for an apples-to-apples comparison.

Dave Kimble at peakoil.org.au has made available the University of Sydney's analysis of Nuclear EROI. Their spreadsheet is included and the energy costs of uranium mining can be extracted.
http://www.peakoil.org.au/news/index.php?http://www.peakoil.org.au/news/...

Nate,
This is off topic but would you mind posting links to some of your personal favorite financial sites?

There are sooo many of them,and lacking any formal training in finance..... an amatuer such as myself might not realize he is reading a sophisticated quack.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/5550284/Japan-plans...

Dr Masao Tanada, of the Japan Atomic Energy Agency, has developed a fabric made primarily of irradiated polyethylene that is able to soak up the minute amounts of uranium – around 3.3 parts per billion – in the seawater.

Dr Tanada hopes to secure funding to construct an underwater uranium farm covering nearly 400 square miles that would meet one-sixth of Japan's annual uranium requirements.

"Other countries are conducting similar research but none are as advanced as we are," he said. "We need to conduct more development research and be able to produce the adsorbent material on a large scale, but we could achieve this within five years."

Dr Tanada hopes to secure funding to construct an underwater uranium farm covering nearly 400 square miles that would meet one-sixth of Japan's annual uranium requirements.

Btw, if 400 square miles are covered by solar hot water, that'll lead to a capacity of 829 GW and if 400 square miles are covered by thinfilm PV, that'll lead to a capacity of 114 GW.

Btw, most household energy is needed for heating (incl. hot water) and cooling.

Most people just want a warm shower and a cold beer and don't necessarily care about how this energy was produced and how much they need of it to reach this goal.

The graph you give doesn't correspond well with the Wikipedia stats, which gives space heating at 32% and water heating at 13%. Regardless, this entire pie is only a fifth of total energy consumption. Industrial, transportation and commercial use consumes about 80% of energy. So what you keep repeating in each nuke thread is mostly irrelevant.

Thanks for confirming that most household energy is needed for heating and cooling purposes. And thanks for letting us know that even most building energy is needed for heating and cooling purposes:

Residential:
32% space heating
13% water heating
12% lighting
11% air conditioning
8% refrigeration
5% electronics
5% wet-clean (mostly clothes dryers)
Total: 86%
Of which at least 71% is according to your link needed for heat energy (hot and cold). Speaking of cooling: Solar hot water capacity is also being used for cooling purposes:
http://www.solarserver.de/solarmagazin/anlage_0308_e.html

Commercial:
25% lighting
13% heating
11% cooling
6% refrigeration
6% water heating
6% ventilation
6% electronics
Total: 67%
Of which 49% is according to your link needed for heat energy (hot and cold).
And speaking of lighting: Since most people work during day time, lighting can also be partially covered with daylighting and save costs:
http://www.daylighting.org/what.php#myths

Industrial:
22% chemical production
16% petroleum refining
14% metal smelting/refining
And these processes undoubtedly require lots of heat energy too.

Transportation:
61% gasoline fuel
21% diesel fuel
12% aviation
So at least 94% of transportation is not electrically powered. Which means that approx. 99% of the transportation sector is not even nuclear powered.

Most people just want a warm shower, a cold beer and travel from A to B. They don't necessarily care whether this energy was produced in a nuclear power plant or somewhere else and how much they need of that energy to reach this goal.

Btw, my graph is from the UK and yours from the USA. Thus the discrepancies, besides that much of this data is probably not that accurate anyway.

Solar hot water capacity is also being used for cooling purposes:

BS !!

*ONE* prototype at a corporate HQ (in tropical Germany !) uses solar heat as a THIRD source of supplemental heat.

Adsorption cooling is quite inefficient and useful only if energy is free and low capital (such as waste heat from electrical generation).

A battery less solar PV driving an efficient air conditioner is a cheaper and better solution than that showpiece.

Alan

a corporate HQ (in tropical Germany !) uses solar heat as a THIRD source of supplemental heat.
So 2/3 of it is energy from solar hot water.

such as waste heat
Which there is also lots of.

A battery less solar PV driving an efficient air conditioner is a cheaper and better solution than that showpiece.
That may be true and still better than collecting sea-water uranium with 400 square miles to power 1/6th of the nuclear capacity.

Hi anyone,

Your point that solar thermal is a cost-effective way to produce hot water and heat rooms is well taken. But it's an "apples to oranges" comparison for uranium extraction and what can be done with 400 square miles.

For solar heating, you'd be talking about 400 square miles of moderately expensive collector and support structure covering surface area. For Dr. Tanada's proposed uranium extraction project, you'd be talking about .. nothing whatsoever that would be visible on the land or ocean surface. It's 400 square miles of what amounts to an artificial kelp forest. Plastic ribbons waving slowly in an ocean current well below the surface. Would probably make a good fish habitat.

For solar heating, you'd be talking about 400 square miles of moderately expensive collector and support structure covering surface area.

Actually this is mostly already existing roof area.

Keep in mind close to 120,000 km2 of the US is built:
http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/geowissenschaften/bericht...

I believe that you have brought out that graph before and it is simply not valid except for NE EU. Please discard this graph because it is meaningless unless talking about UK or Germany specifically.

I suspect that space heating is about 5% of my personal energy requirements, not 60%.

I am not typical of the rest of the USA, OECD, etc. but neither is that graph.

Best Hopes for Meaningful Data,

Alan

All what I say is:

Most household energy is needed for cooling and heating (incl. hot water, washing machine).

This is the case for the majority of households in the world.

This is the case for the majority of households in the world.

I VERY much doubt that, given the # of households in tropical areas with minimal or no heating needs and no air conditioner.

I suspect that cooking is the dominant energy need for a majority of households in the world. Not the OECD, but the world.

And it is not valid to lump heating and cooling together, since solar thermal is useful for heating only.

Alan

I VERY much doubt that, given the # of households in tropical areas with minimal or no heating needs and no air conditioner.
Yes but in this case they also have a very small energy need in comparison and definitely don't need to build large sea water uranium farms to cover their energy needs.
The majority of energy needed in worldwide households is still needed for heating (incl. hot water) and cooling purposes.

Besides that cooking also requires heat energy and is even being done with solar heat in tropical areas (and not with sea-water uranium):
http://www.adesolaire.org/en/index.html

And it is not valid to lump heating and cooling together, since solar thermal is useful for heating only.
Besides that solar cooling does exist and storing PV energy in ice (air conditioning) is affordable. It is valid to lump heating, hot water and washing machine together.

First I strongly support solar hot water heaters (at least between of 50 degrees N & S latitude), solar ovens (<35 degrees lat.) and even solar space heating (where practical). A solar oven is on my list of personal "wants".

However, lumping solar cooling in with solar thermal heating IS NOT APPROPRIATE.

Solar thermal > solar space heating is a simple and "natural" process.

A Rube Goldberg# contraption is required to convert on site solar energy into cooling as demanded (peak around 3 to 4 PM with secondary peak near 6 PM as people come home). Quite frankly, I find straining seawater for uranium more practical and economic.

#Google him if unaware

Just because something can be done, does not mean that it should be done. My feelings about solar cooling.

Alan

A Rube Goldberg# contraption is required to convert on site solar energy into cooling as demanded (peak around 3 to 4 PM with secondary peak near 6 PM as people come home).

Besides that this solar cooling system is utilized in a large office building (no people come home), the solar heat is stored in large hot water tanks, which are needed anyway for hot water and heating purposes (it is therefore irrelevant whether the peak is at 3 PM or at 6 PM).
http://www.solarserver.de/solarmagazin/anlage_0308_e.html

Quite frankly, I find straining seawater for uranium more practical and economic.

Quite frankly, besides the fact that desiccant cooling with solar heat and waste heat exists and commercial sea water uranium extraction doesn't, I find desiccant cooling with solar heat which is being applied in the system above, quite a simple process compared to collecting sea water uranium with an area of 400 square miles. Especially since the solar heat is not only needed for cooling but also needed for hot water and heating. (3 tasks at one blow).
http://www.prlog.org/10173132-chiller-free-dehumidificationcooling-saves...
http://www.munters.com/en/au/products--services/dehumidification/Desicca...
http://www.toolbase.org/Technology-Inventory/HVAC/desiccant-cooling

Jan 27, 2009 – Sol Energy Hellas used DuCool’s chiller-free, desiccant-based dehumidification and cooling technology in the six-story Prometheus Pyrphoros building in Paleo Faliro, Athens, Greece to save 90% on energy costs. The 6,500 square foot (600 square meters) building is now cooled with only 6 kW of electricity to save $22,000 (€16,854) in energy costs per year. The energy savings amount to $3.38 per square foot (€28.09 per square meter). DuCool’s technology uses geothermal water and hot water from a solar thermal system to provide cooling and dehumidification.

Desiccant "cooling" controls humidity but not temperature. An important feature in air conditioning (and why it is called air conditioning and not "cooling").

A nice supplement but hardly the answer.

The "90% savings" claimed in Greece I take with a near lethal dose of NaCl.

I have done some novel engineering work on humidity control (New Orleans ranks only behind the Amazon basin for design parameters for humidity control). I ran the make-up air into a commercial building through efficient dehumidifiers from DEC to cool and dehumidify before putting into the building.

http://www.dehumidifiercorp.com/replacement_dec.html

Alan

Desiccant "cooling" controls humidity but not temperature. An important feature in air conditioning (and why it is called air conditioning and not "cooling").

Dehumidifying air, which you know, is almost always necessary in air conditioning and already requires lots of energy. And if a solar hot water system is already installed for hot water and heating purposes it may as well be used for dehumidifying and thus cooling purposes (as this heat energy from an already installed system is basically free - as opposed to the 400 square mile sea water uranium farm).

After the air is dehumidified, which already requires lots of energy, the air is cooled below outside air temperature by simply humidifying (little energy) that air again (cooling by heat of evaporation). An intermediate cooling step may not even be necessary and even if it was, it would definitely require much less energy and not have to deal with condensation issues.

The article doesn't prove (or attempt to prove) that there is less economically minable uranium available than the Red Book claims. There could be less or there could also be more. What the article does prove beyond any doubt is that:

  1. The accuracy levels of 0.01% and 0.001% that the Red Book assigns to its claimed reserves are not justified, not by a long shot, not by any shot.
  2. The data claimed by the Red Book are in contradiction with the economic-geological hypothesis that states that the amount of uranium that is economically minable grows rapidly with a rise in the price of uranium.

Thanks for trying to bring the discussion to the points of the article.

Just to add
1) gregvp

it seems to me that you agree with the statement

that the Red Book uranium resource data base is highly inaccurate.

If yes, it implies that the data should not be used by anyone to justify
whatever resource lifetime. Thus we are left in the dark.

concerning

Finally, nuclear weapon risk considerations may help explain why there are relatively few operating mines, even if there are many economic deposits at $40. I imagine that governments would like to have accurate, reliable, and precise accounts of uranium ore extraction and production, even if they do not want to share that information.

I think that this is not the case.
After all, bomb making
either by U235 or Pu239 is usually considered not to be limited
by raw uranium (not too much is needed)
but
by "high tech nuclear know how"

which means U235 enrichment facilities far beyond the level
required for running a normal PWR reactor.

for Pu239 bombs well what evil countries (not member of the NPT treaty) do
is usually to run a smaller reactor and use the excess neutrons to breed plutonium
in a blanket surrounding the core.
But I agree, there is an enormous amount of secrecy about the nuclear fuel cycle
and especially about breeding possibilities.

Thus bad luck for those who to form a critical independent opinion about
the true possibilities for the nuclear energy future.
One needs to dig through tons of documents and the result is what I present in my article(s).
-------------------------------------
hello
advancednano

same question do you agree with the judgement of the Red Book
and that the numbers should not be used in order to
justify that no resource problems exist?

for the numbers you quote are essentially what is summarized in the Red Book
under UPR (undiscovered probable) and USR (undiscovered speculative)

I do not want to judge them and how much of it can eventually be exploited
do you know extraction efficiencies or the geologist you quote.

But I can recommend to have a look at the Article from the
IAEA experts I reference Analysis of uranium supply to 2050
http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/Pub1104_scr.pdf

they have a lot to say about all these speculative things

Many details about the potential contributions of uranium from a large number of unconventional resources are presented in that report (Section 5), and especially the remarks about sea water uranium are remarkable: "Research on extracting uranium from sea water will undoubtedly continue, but at the current costs sea water as a potential commercial source of uranium is little more than a curiosity."

finally as this is often discussed on the oil drum

do you believe in the Canadian/USA/Venezuela etc billions of giga barrel of
unconventional oil?
or in the OPEC oil resource rise during the mid/end eighties?

as far as I understand one better should not believe them!

so why should one accept the uranium figures without any evidence?

-------------------------------------------

Hello Boof,
you write:

>There are a couple of curious omissions from this analysis. Firstly the uranium outlook in Australia has >changed just in 2009.

I think you misunderstood perhaps what the article is about
the Red Book 2007 (published in 2008).

I am looking forward to the next edition and the updated numbers for australia.

However, to make it clear: New mines do not increase the RAR number
the new mines will try to exploit the previous identified RAR deposits.

for
> The other omission is the likely improvement in fuel burn rates for next generation nuclear.

as you say this is speculative and we do not know when such reactors will become relevant.

I say this clearly in my summary (and more will come in Chapter IV)

The analysis presented in this and the previous two parts of this four-part article [6] demonstrates that the current uranium extraction and the believed-to-exist uranium resources are incompatible with even a modest growth scenario of conventional nuclear fission power.

regards Michael

I think the Redbook is a decent report and has useful information.
I also look at information being reported by the mining companies and the plans of the companise and nations. I also look at recent news reports and scientific studies and information from new technology projects.

I do judge all of them and use my own analysis of how much I think can be produced based on what is happening and on what could happen.

I do not agree with your analysis. I find it weird that you will look at certain forms of nuclear fusion energy production but will not closely analyze Uranium from Phosphate which has already produced thousands of tons of Uranium.

It is also hypocritical for you to say that Bill Hanrahan's analysis of economics in nuclear power and uranium is off-topic and then you will try to bring in the debate about unconventional oil reserves or the accuracy of OPEC oil reserves.

It is disingenuous of you to claim that no evidence is being provided by those who claim that there is no uranium supply problem, when evidence is provided.

You will try to sidetrack debate on Phosphate from Uranium and other sources with a link to a 112 page report from the IAEA. Yet your core thesis is that the Redbook (also produced by the IAEA) is massively flawed.

The 112 page report through 106 pages of it is making the case for increasing production to 170,000+ tons/year of uranium production. Then you focus on a few pages that cast indicate that until prices are over $300/kg there is limited appeal to uranium from seawater or if uranium is only a byproduct of phosphate mining then there is 3600 tons per year of uranium. From there you try to conclude that because business as usual does not instantly solve the problem then when business becomes unusual (uranium shortage for the multi-hundred billion dollar nuclear energy industry) that known resources with proven recovery methods at the hundreds of tons per year scale would not be scaled up.

Your argument is not internally consistent. Your assumptions are flawed and not justified. Your boundaries on the problem analysis are not justified. Your conclusions are wrong.

????

>Your argument is not internally consistent. Your assumptions are flawed and not justified. Your boundaries on the >problem analysis are not justified. Your conclusions are wrong.

which conclusions are wrong?

and which ones are inconsistent?

the UPR and USR numbers are what they are
current technology gets only tiny fractions out of them

a few 1000 tons over many years from Phosphor stuff
or a few kg perhaps from seawater? (if true

compare this with the 65000 tons required to operate
the modest 370 GWe today

but please if you have good numbers on
planned capacity increase to dig out uranium from UPR and USR
well cite them!

for the other inconsistencies of the RAR numbers
and especially the IR numbers
do you take the large increase in the IR category
serious
and do you believe claims from Russia?

or do you have more confidence in Canada and Australia

not all of them can be correct.

michael

Hi Michael

Thanks for being willing to go through the Oil Drum grinder!

Re nuclear weapon risk as a motive for government control of mining, I wasn't very clear.

After all, bomb making
either by U235 or Pu239 is usually considered not to be limited
by raw uranium (not too much is needed)

Yes, not much is needed - that's why accounting would have to be very tight. But I was not thinking of "conventional" bombs. Consider the implications if the jets that crashed into the World Trade Centre in New York had been full of yellow-cake, and dropped most of it as they flew over New York city. The actual risk to health is immaterial - the hysteria would be immense. This is only one of many possible misuses.

It wouldn't be hard for security analysts to come up with strong motivations for tight control of uranium production and distribution. I hope and trust they have everywhere been persuasive.

Hi,

ok I understand now what you mean.

Even though I am a little less concerned with such "terrorism"
but yes evil minded people can do lots of damage
in our complicated societies.

a "dirty" bomb is just one thing among many.
What about a plane being dumped into a nuclear facility
for example

What about the asbestos scandal also related to the World Trade Center

or about a "dirty" virus bomb?

as long as media are effective in downplaying some scandals it is not
leading to panic.

take for example Chernobyl
a few hundred thousand people were evacuated
and the radiation damage risks are either downplayed effectively
or ignored or not real.

no panic we heard about.
In fact we even do not know what happened with the 600000 liquidators
(young men soldiers from all around Soviet Empire) who cleaned up.

only rumors exist and these rumors are not nice.

michael

do you believe in the Canadian/USA/Venezuela etc billions of giga barrel of
unconventional oil? or in the OPEC oil resource rise during the mid/end eighties?

as far as I understand one better should not believe them!

I find this item very telling. Does Dr Dittmar posses information which we should use to discount the 170+ billion bbl reserve booked against 1,200+ billion bbl OIP in the Canadian Oil Sands? (I find the 170 billion to be a ridiculously conservative underestimate of probable total recoverable given newly emerging extraction technologies such as THAI, in-place electric heated SAGD, other new ideas inevitably to arise in the next decades, etc.)

The ONLY way the oil sands reserves, or world uranium reserves IMHO, might not be extracted is if political forces unite against them to ban such, which is what this series of articles appears to be, to me.

lengould,

thanks for the answer.

do you care about the EROEI for the canadian oil sands?

I and most other here on the oildrum do!

michael

Actually yes, I do care, but I haven't been able to find any authoritative ones. What are the numbers you use?

I have seen various numbers below 5 and smaller
compared to 30 or more for conventional oil.

natural environmental destruction excluded of course!

In addition capacity seems to be limited and all depends on the
availability of natural gas (or nuclear power nearby reactors which do not yet exist)

but the many experts here on the oil drum know much better
and it is kind of off topic.

Just wanted to figure out if you think we have an oil problem or not
and you answered!

michael

I had actually assumed you would understand I was requesting referenced verifiable numbers. Saying "below 5 and smaller" is no more authoritative than me saying "(the same as / comparable to) either a typical heavy oil imported by energy-consuming ships from S Arabia or an energy-intensive deep-water GOM platform".

this is not about
EROEI of oil sands

Michael

The data claimed by the Red Book are in contradiction with the economic-geological hypothesis that states that the amount of uranium that is economically minable grows rapidly with a rise in the price of uranium.

Absolutely, which is why we should assume that the amount of lower-grade deposits are extremely under-estimated by the Red Book. Which is quite natural, in a way, since lower-grade deposits aren't as interesting to explore and catalogue.

Having read the article, I'm even more convinced that uranium is abundant than I was before. The author's extremely pessimistic bias isn't very convincing.

fine!

so you reject the Red Book uranium resource data and the claims from Australia and Canada
as I said stick to an unproven hypothesis!

The Red Book uranium resource data show that the economic-geological hypothesis is not backed up by the data. This conclusion is strengthened beyond any doubt, if one believes that Australia and Canada provide the most reliable resource data.

and

At the current time, however, the Red Book uranium resource data are the only existing and usable data base. These data, including large uncertainties, demonstrate that the economic-geological hy pothesis is contradicted by the data. This widely used hypothesis states that more and more uranium can be extracted if only the price is allowed to increase. This claim is in total disagreement with the overall resource data and with the data offered by many individual countries.

Thus, one is left with the choice of either rejecting the Red Book data completely and sticking with an unproven hypothesis, or giving up that unproven hypothesis.

regard Michael

Yes, as you say, the higher grade ore data is more reliable, and that's b/c lower grades aren't as explored, and thus is underestimated. So yes, I stick with the "unproven hypothesis", which I consider quite well founded.

if you prefer that fine with me!

I hope you will from now on reject the Red Book uranium resource numbers
as well and accept the "small print" with respect to the original
hypothesis.

They hasten to add, however, that this is only an approximative argument; no rigorous statistical basis exists for expecting a log-normal distribution. They continue, pointing out the enormously complex range of geochemical behavior of uranium - and its wide variety of different binds of economic deposit.

http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=6665051

To estimate the total resource availability of uranium, the authors' approach has been to ask whether the distribution of uranium in the earth's crust can be reasonably approximated by a bell-shaped log-normal curve. In addition they have asked whether the uranium deposits actually mined appear to be a portion of the high-grade tail, or ascending slope, of the distribution. This approach preserves what they feel are the two most important guiding principles of Hubbert's work, for petroleum, namely recognizing the geological framework that contains the deposits of interest and examining the industry's historical record of discovering those deposits. Their findings, published recently in the form of a book-length report prepared for the US Department of Energy, suggest that for uranium the crustal-distribution model and the mining-history model can be brought together in a consistent picture. In brief, they conclude that both sets of data can be described by a single log-normal curve, the smoothly ascending slope of which indicates approximately a 300-fold increase in the amount of uranium recoverable for each tenfold decrease in ore grade. This conclusion has important implications for the future availability of uranium. They hasten to add, however, that this is only an approximative argument; no rigorous statistical basis exists for expecting a log-normal distribution. They continue, pointing out the enormously complex range of geochemical behavior of uranium - and its wide variety of different binds of economic deposit. Their case study, supported by US mining records, indicates that the supply of uranium will not be a limiting factor in the development of nuclear power.

It's quite telling when people use the care with which scientists always express themselves as a justification for suggesting the opposite of what the scientists actually claim.

It is clear that uranium has larger assured reserves (in years) than most minerals. It is also clear that reserves expand tremendeously with increased price. It is furthermore clear that nuclear energy is currently not very sensitive to uranium price.

The conclusion is obvious to anyone - we need not worry about uranium availability.

There can still be shortages of fabricated fuel if the balance is too tight, regardless of what is in the rocks.

One flooded mine, a fire in an enrichment facility, an earthquake in a fuel fabrication plant, etc.

One of my takeaways is that we are "tight" in the supply chain and increased Chinese demand will make it tighter.

Worst Hopes for Mr. Murphy taking control,

Alan

Certainly true that we can have temporary shortages, as we can in every material and good. But I guess that as nuclear power scales, fuel production facilities will become more numerous and so less sensitive.

>The conclusion is obvious to anyone - we need not worry about uranium availability.

well may be all the experts from the IAEA, the WNA, the uranium mining industry
and similar pro nuclear organizations seem to have a different and less obvious view.

The data I present in the article demonstrate that beyond doubt.
(one only needs to do a critical reading of the official documents!)

I think it is time for you to attack the people in these organizations
(why me? I just translate their documents for you and others!)
with hard numbers

if you do not have hard numbers well bad for you!

Michael

well may be all the experts from the IAEA, the WNA, the uranium mining industry
and similar pro nuclear organizations seem to have a different and less obvious view.

No, they don't.

just read some of the references I provided and used.

or simply look at the plot
at the end. Take your bet on Kazakhstan mining evolution
with respect to the claims.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf22.html

michael

I have read them all, and I agree with them that uranium availability is not a problem.

if you can't see the gap in the WNA plot
perhaps you should take glasses before opening the document?

or you accept the slow phase out curve!
(blue..)

the two growth curves are out of question after 2016!

do you believe that Kazakhstan can provide?

michael

Why do you interpret the plot like that? If you look more closely, primary production reference is ramping quickly to full coverage of world demand by 2012, which means the secondary production may be stockpiled and used to cover any shortfalls in the decade thereafter. If primary production needs to be ramped beyond say 2016, then it will be ramped. There is abundant uranium in the ground.

If Kazakhstan can provide? Yes, of course, and Australia and Canada. All three seems set to increase from 8000-9000 tU/year to 14000-16000 tU/year in the relatively near term:

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/default.aspx?id=430

Just read what was posted by John Busby in this discussion today

Canada mines are in decline and Cigar lake is in trouble
(it was also mentioned in my article by the way!)

we will see what Kazakhstan will contribute.

michael

Cigar Lake in trouble? Yes, certainly. But do you really think 2.5 million tonnes of 20% uranium ore will be abandoned? That's about a year's worth of world electricity consumption, worth a trillion dollars.

They hasten to add, however, that this is only an approximative argument; no rigorous statistical basis exists for expecting a log-normal distribution. They continue, pointing out the enormously complex range of geochemical behavior of uranium - and its wide variety of different binds of economic deposit.

I think this is a very good point that could benefit from further thought. The log-normal is by itself not that special and something like the Pareto distribution could be used in its place. One theoretical basis for how the log-normal comes about is due to Kottler who back in 1950 showed that it could occur by applying a varying growth rate in the accumulation of material. The material in this case is accumulation of density in an ore deposit. I can easily derive a Pareto-like distribution by applying a dispersive effect to growth rates as well. This in fact can be used to show how size of oil reservoirs evolve (google "dispersive aggregation").

One of the empirical characteristics of these kinds of fractal distributions is that there is almost universally an equal amount of reduced material per decade of ore concentration, or total oil in terms of sizing. In other words, for every 10x reduction of grade in ore (or 10x in reservoir sizing), you will find an equivalent amount of total usable material. This has some rather simple yet profound implications for how we decide to go forward.

For example, do we decide to go after a grade that is 10x less dense knowing the energy it will take to refine, knowing that we can also try to find the more pure ore which will result in the same refinable output? That is a question also worth discussing in this massive commentary, but I fear that it is lost in the noise caused by criticisms of the technology.

Hi,

I would hope that the discussion could follow you great suggestion.
This could result in something highly rewarding
if one manages to not have it drowned in the "noise".

In my view one should also try to get as much information as possible
about the other big uranium mines.
McArthur mine data are already starting to tell a story
but I am sure one could find much much more from an
analysis of the former big mines in the USA for example
like the one in east germany.

lets try!

Michael

I am sure that this topic will get revisited. By the number of comments, you have hit a nerve and TOD will likely have some sort of followup.

I would also start with a closer inspection of Deffeyes claim of 300 times. Deffeyes is clever but tends to informality in his math. I got that from reading his books.

The article doesn't prove (or attempt to prove) that there is less economically minable uranium available than the Red Book claims.

It clearly does attempt to.

There could be less or there could also be more. What the article does prove beyond any doubt is that:

2. The data claimed by the Red Book are in contradiction with the economic-geological hypothesis that states that the amount of uranium that is economically minable grows rapidly with a rise in the price of uranium.

Not at all. The ore bodies covered in the book are nothing like a random sample of those in the Earth. In an era when the price of uranium ran about US$20/kg, once you'd established that an ore body couldn't be developed for less than several times that — due to e.g. remoteness, depth, or grade — what point would there be in spending more time and money to prove it up to the level of Reasonably Assured Resource?

Hi Bill Woods,

I gave lots of numbers for RAR
and especially the numbers from Canada and Australia,
the most reliable countries(?)
show indeed that they are in total contradiction with
the "economic-geological hypothesis"

that the other categories are more and more unreliable
is written in the Red Book

so in fact lets only take the RAR for future planning!

Furthermore,
the evolution of RAR categories with different cost tag
over the different Red Books shows again
that they are very inconsistent.

what more info do you need?

ah,yes evolution of the McArthur mine (and others) in Canada.

doesn't look like that 130000 tons remain to be mined

but shareholders should not be informed
so my article perhaps will help to
open the "Cameco data base"

michael

Michael, reactor fuel assemblies cost about one half cent per kWh in 2007,

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/epat8p2.html

of which natural uranium cost is about one third.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf02.html

The average U.S. U3O8 price actually paid in 2007 was $24.45.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/nuclear/umar/summarytable1.html

Fuel cost for coal was, 2.4 cents per kWh, and for natural gas, 5.67 cents.

To make reactor fuel as expensive per kWh as coal the uranium cost / kWh would have to increase to 2.07 cents / kWh, which is about $300 per pound U3O8, $660 / kg.

To make reactor fuel as expensive per kWh as natural gas the uranium cost / kWh would have to increase to 5.3cents / kWh, which is about $700 per pound, $1,500 / kg.

Questions.

1. How expensive would uranium have to be to convince utilities to shutdown nuclear plants and burn more coal and gas, thus driving coal and gas prices much higher.

2. What would coal and gas prices be now without nuclear power?

Seawater contains 4.5 billion tons of uranium, half of which would meet all the worlds’ needs for several hundred years. It can be extracted for less than $200 / pound.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/08/how-long-can-uranium-last-for-nuclear.html

Seawater uranium is important because it limits the maximum sustainable uranium price to $200 / pound. Seawater does not have to provide all our uranium to limit the price to that level. It only has to replace that portion of the conventional supply that costs more than $200 / pound, which is zero % for the foreseeable future.

A dirt simple MSR running a once through cycle would need about 1/3 as much uranium as a conventional reactor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F0tUDJ35So&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnucleargree...

That should be the dominant Gen IV reactor because it can be designed, tested and put into mass production faster than more complex designs. We can than, at our leisure, design a breeder / burner reactor that can split the large mass of heavy metal atoms left over from the Gen I thru IV reactor systems, converting them to fission products that become less radiotoxic than ore in 270 years.

Very interesting comments
but perhaps a little off topic no?

michael

I think the topic is whether there is a nearterm uranium supply problem or if there will be a uranium supply problem and if so how will it occur and what are the mitigating technologies.

The post is therefore on topic. Especially as this and the proven availability of uranium from phosphate (thousands of tons of uranium from phosphate per year were produced and some countries like Brazil are doing it again).

Whenever someone has a fairly clear case that your concerns and conclusions are bogus you either claim to not understand it or try to bound the analysis to exclude it.

Japan is seriously making moves to advance large scale uranium from seawater plans. The Mitsubishi Research Initiative study of using bioengineered seaweed for the dual purpose of biofuel and for extracting uranium from seawater. Plus the previously mentioned new proposals to scale up the adsorption method.

Uranium from coal ash projects are at the tens to hundred tons per year projects. Those are beyond laboratory curiousities.

Development of known sources for mines are occuring. Exploration for conventional sources is ramping up.

All aspects of the case that you are trying to make is weak.

If you are trying to narrowly attack certain aspects of the RedBook without being willing to defend your overall thesis of Uranium supply, then your article is pointless. It is not like we are adherents to the Redbook the way certain religions are adherents to the Bible or the Koran.

advancednano -

The prospect of recovering uranium from sea water is intriguing, but it is difficult for me to picture such a process as being economically feasible.

As I understand it, the average uranium concentration in sea water is about 3.3 parts per billion. Thus, to obtain a single pound of uranium one must move 300 million pound of sea water through some sort of sorbent material. Accordingly, if one wants to produce 1,000 lbs per day (a relatively modest amount), one needs to move 300 billion pounds of water per day. That is one hell of a lot of liquid to have to move, whether you're actually pumping it or doing it passively by situating the sorbent in an ocean current!

I would imagine that the seaweed scheme is to have seaweed with a high affinity for uranium uptake to be grown in special beds and to then harvest the seaweed and extract the uranium. I would also imagine this would be done by dissolving the seaweed in nitric acid and then using some sort of selective ion exchange to separate the uranium. Then when the uranium is eluted from the ion exchange column a number of further processing steps would be required to finally get to metallic uranium. I can't picture this being cheap to do either. (Maybe there's some sort of a 'dry' process where you directly smelt the uranium out of the seaweed?)

As far as extracting uranium from coal ash, while the uranium concentration is much higher than in sea water, one is still faced with dissolving a lot of material in acid, several further processing steps, and then left with a large volume of acidic solution containing all sorts of dissolved heavy metals. This would probably have to neutralized and turned back into a solid via precipitation. Environmentally, a mess no matter how you slice it.

Maybe there are easier ways that I'm not familiar with.

The plan is to place the uranium collection system in the path of ocean currents. Kuroshio current moves 520,000 tons of uranium every year.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/09/uranium-from-seawater-on-large-scale.html

At a regular meeting of the Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) on June 2, the Japan Atomic Energy Agency (JAEA) and the Central Research Institute of the Electric Power Industry (CRIEPI) reported on technology for collecting uranium from seawater. According to the two organizations, the total amount of uranium contained in seawater – as one of the 77 elements dissolved therein – measures some 4.5 billion tons, about one thousand times more than is known to exist in uranium mines. Even if Japan could collect just 0.2% of the 520,000 tons of uranium transported every year by the Japan (Kuroshio) Current that flows in the Pacific Ocean, it could easily meet its annual need of 8,000 tons.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/08/japans-large-scal-uranium-from-seawater...

If they go with seaweed, then any processing costs are offset by getting biofuel from the seaweed.

The Mitsubishi Research Institute (MRI) has recently recommended Japan mass-culture seaweed to collect natural resources such as bio-ethanol and uranium. In the “Apollo and Poseidon Initiative 2025,” MRI suggests that Japan cultures gulfweed, which can grow more than 2 metres high a year in the sea. The plants could also absorb carbon dioxide and purify the seawater, and can be used as non-food alternative energy sources for bio-ethanol. In April, MRI plans to inaugurate a consortium comprising public research institutes and manufacturers to move the plan forward. Using advanced molecular and gene-engineering technologies, MRI estimates that Japan would be capable of producing 65 million metric tons of gulfweed a year, and recovering a resource of 195 million tons of uranium. The annual rate of recovery is 40% of Japan’s total consumption. (19 February 2008, Nikkan Kogyo Shimbun)

Currently about eight million or so tonnes of seaweed are produced each year, with a market of nearly $6 billion, primarily China, Japan and Korea. The seaweed is grown for food.

===============

http://www.spartonres.ca/uraniumsecondary.htm

A uranium extraction facility would help clean up potential or existing environmental hazards, create a new supply of domestic uranium, and create value as cement and concrete filler material. Sparton would benefit from management fees and possible royalties plus an equity ownership in the company operating the facility.

Sparton's team is continuing to acquire samples from other high uranium ash stations in other areas of China and new results will be available on an ongoing basis. Since signing the agreement in China, Sparton has signed agreements to do similar programs in 6 countries in Central Europe and the Republic of South Africa.

Here is a pdf with info on the sparton uranium from coal project
http://www.spartonres.ca/download/EIQ-Spring2009-SpartonResources.pdf

advancednano -

Thanks for the links, which I have briefly perused.

First, on the subject of uranium from sea water -

Evidently, the Japanese test results went something like this: After soaking in moving sea water for 240 days, 350 kg of the uranium-sorbing fabric was able to remove 1 kg of uranium. I don't recall any mention being made as to how the uranium is subsequently removed from the fabric or whether the fabric can be reused or is consumed during the uranium removal step. (The answer to this question is quite critical to the scheme's technical/economic feasibility.)

At the above rate, one would need 84,000 kg of this special fabric to remove 1kg per day of uranium. Or if scaled up to our modest production rate of 1,000kg per day, 84 million kg of fabric would be required. That is a LOT of fabric! I don't know how much this stuff costs, but I strong suspect it is substantially greater than $1 per pound. Thus, the investment in fabric alone would be an absolute minimum of $84 million. In reality, the total installed cost would no doubt be several times this amount. Furthermore, much of the economics will depend not only on the cost of the fabric but also on the manner in which the uranium is removed from the fabric and whether the fabric can be reused.

Regarding using seaweed to remove uranium, it would be great if byproduct uses of the sea weed could be utilized to offset the overall cost of extraction. Whether that comes to pass will largely depend on how the uranium is removed from the seaweed. And from what I've read so far, that is not clear. If the harvested seaweed has to be dissolved in acid in order for the uranium to be extracted, then I am a bit doubtful on how useful the subsequent acidic wet organic slop is going to be for byproduct uses.

Now on to uranium from fly ash -

The link regarding the Sparton process reveals that (as I had suspected) it is merely a form of hydro-metallurgy using an acid extraction. As such it will entail large tailing ponds containing acidic, heavy-metal laden residuals. Considerable further processing of this waste material would be needed to turn it into an even marginally useful building material. I seriously doubt such would ever be done. Of course, it is far more easy to get away with this sort of thing in China than in the (presumably) more environmentally enlightened US. I will stick by my original comment that environmentally it will be a real mess.

As I see it, both the sea water route and the fly ash route inherently involve the handling and processing of huge amounts of material to get a very tiny amount of useful product out. Whenever you do this, it gets very expensive regardless of how clever you are.

Maybe the Japanese and this Sparton company can eventually pull it off, but it's hard for me to be bullish on either.

you realize that the massive land fills of coal ash are toxic waste and are leaking acid and metals into the ground and water already ?

Also, there is new work making tailing cleanup and extraction of uranium more economical.
http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/09/uk-devellops-cheaper-recovery-of.html

the Japanese and russians have calculated scaling up the uranium from seawater process.

http://nucleargreen.blogspot.com/2008/03/cost-of-recovering-uranium-from...

"At the Takazaki Radiation Chemistry Research Establishment of the Japan Atomic Energy Research Institute (JAERI Takazaki Research Establishment), research and development have continued for the production of adsorbent by irradiation processing of polymer fiber. Adsorbents have been synthesized that have a functional group (amidoxime group) that selectively adsorbs heavy metals, and the performance of such adsorbents has been improved. Uranium adsorption capacity of this polymer fiber adsorbent is high in comparison to the conventional titanium oxide adsorbent. We have reached the point of being able to verify the attainment of 10-fold higher adsorption capacity on a dry adsorbent basis. This adsorbent can make practical use of wave motion or tidal power for efficient contact with seawater. This adsorbent has been used since 1996 in the actual marine environment by utilizing moored small-scale test equipment for recovery of trace metals, including uranium, from within seawater. As a result, it has become apparent that use of this adsorbent makes possible recovery of seawater uranium with higher efficiency than the earlier method."

------

A recovery system based upon this adsorbent uses ocean current to produce efficient contact between the adsorbent and a large volume of seawater. According to the basic conditions of Table 1, the required quantity of adsorbent (quantity at the time of mooring) becomes 40,000 tons, and the quantity exchanged due to adsorbent performance decline becomes 10,000 tons per year.

Adsorbent is used in the form of 15 cm wide strips of nonwoven sandwiching a spacer and coiled into a short cylindrical shape. This roll is loaded into a cage (adsorption bed = short cylindrical shape of 4 m diameter). A single adsorption bed is loaded with 125 kg of adsorbent. The quantity of adsorbed uranium per bed during 60 days is 750 g. These adsorption beds are strung and tied together by rope at roughly 0.5 m intervals to form 1 basic unit.

125 kg of adsorbent is loaded into a single adsorption bed. Specifically, the adsorption bed is a metal mesh container (cage), formed from stainless steel, that has specific a gravity of 7.8 and a mass of 685 kg. A 15 cm wide sheet of adsorbent (150 g/m2) is coiled so as to load 125 kg of adsorbent. A plastic mesh sheet is inserted between adsorbent windings as a spacer. The specific gravity thereof is 1.15 so total mass is 104 kg. Total bed mass becomes 914 kg. The weight in seawater becomes 611 kg, so the weight when pulled up becomes 1,161 kg.

-------

Although 40,000 tons of adsorbent must be produced beforehand prior to the start of uranium recovery, production then becomes 10,000 tons per year for replenishment during the time period of regular uranium recovery. We made a trial calculation of the cost of manufacture of 10,000 tons per year of adsorbent. Details of this calculation are shown in Table 2. Precursor material cost occupies a large proportion in comparison to production equipment cost. Even if we were to assume an increase in production equipment for annual production of 40,000 tons per year, the equipment cost increase would be held down to slightly more than 2-fold. From such estimates, production unit cost of adsorbent was estimated to be 493,000 yen per ton (493 yen/kg). The quantity of recovered uranium becomes 120 kg per 1 ton of adsorbent for the case of 20 reuses. Therefore the adsorbent production cost required for recovery of 1 kg of seawater uranium is estimated to be 4,100 yen/kg-U.

The most interesting aspect of this report is the cost of this radical recovery method. The report states. "The recovery cost was estimated to be 5-10 times of that from mining uranium. More than 80% of the total cost was occupied by the cost for marine equipment for mooring the adsorbents in seawater, which is owning to a weight of metal cage for adsorbents. Thus, the cost can be reduced to half by the reduction of the equipment weight to 1/4. Improvement of adsorbent ability is also a problem for future research since the cost directly depends on the adsorbent performance."

http://jolisfukyu.tokai-sc.jaea.go.jp/fukyu/mirai-en/2006/4_5.html

Uranium mining ship speculation
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2009/05/29/ulum-ultra-large-uranium-miner-s...

http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/07/deep-burn-and-seriously-scaling-nuclear...

The recovery cost was estimated to be 5-10 times of that from mining uranium. More than 80% of the total cost was occupied by the cost for marine equipment for mooring the adsorbents in seawater, which is owing to the weight of metal cage for adsorbents. Thus, the cost can be reduced to half by the reduction of the equipment weight to 1/4.

So to produce 60,000 tons/year of uranium would take 60 million tons of absorbents using current inefficient lab scale methods. 15 million tons with currently foreseen improvements.

Divert 1% of the polyethylene for 10 years when you decide to scale up the seawater extraction. Then you can make a little over 1 of the 10,000/ton year processes each year. In ten years you have 100,000/ton year.

The world capacity of polyethylene production increased up to 70 million tons per year, the polyethylene output in 2005 amounted to 65 million per year

The cost quote was 600,000 yen/ton unwoven + 87,700 yen per ton for polymerization

advancednano -

Thanks for the further clarification.

Regarding the work the Japanese are doing re the sea water route, I was curious as to exactly how the uranium is removed from the treated polyethylene once it has been filled to capacity. As I don't see any practical way of doing this in situ, I would assume that the canisters have to be removed from the sea and then sent to a process plant on shore where the uranium is eluted in soluble form. Correct? Can those canisters then be regenerated like a typical ion exchange column and then redeployed in the ocean once more? Is it known how many times they can be thus regenerated?

As far as leaching uranium from fly ash, I am well aware that all sorts of heavy metals routinely leach from fly ash piles and that they can cause considerable environmental problems. However, as I am quite sure that you are aware, the solubility of most heavy metals in an aqueous solution increases by several orders of magnitude as the pH drops. Thus, unless the residuals from the acidic leaching operation are subsequently neutralized, the amount of heavy metals migrating into the soil and groundwater could be several orders of magnitude greater than for a fly ash pile whose liquid fraction is at near neutral pH. Having said that, I doubt the Chinese or the Russians are terrible concerned about such potential environmental problems at this point.

It would strike me that reasonably good cost estimates can be made for operations involving the leaching of uranium from fly ash piles, as the technology involved is for the most part quite mature. On the other hand, I think there is far more uncertainty with respect to the uranium-from sea water route, as there really isn't any full-scale experience to go by. I would venture that if it eventually proves unsuccessful it will be because the material handling difficulties turned out to be far greater and far more costly than anticipated.

Of course, time will tell. I've become interested in this and plan to keep an eye on further developments.

This is just from memory -- I read an early article about the Japanese work several years ago -- but yes, the mats have to be retrieved and transported for processing. There is (or was, at that time) some degradation with each cycle. IIRC, the mats were good for some 5 cycles.

99+ % of the mass of the mats, BTW, is just polyethylene. The irradiation process that the researchers used was just a way to disrupt the surface molecular structure and create sites where amidoxime groups could bind. It's the amidoxime groups that have a high affinity for uranium (and vanadium) ions.

I'd guess that the cycling damage to the mats is loss of a portion surface amidoxime groups. It's possible that they could be reprocessed to restore the concentration of amidoxime groups. But that's speculation on my part; I don't think the article I read said anything about it.

I think we have to deal with several issues.

the short term supply problems (discussed in detail in part I and II)

this is a question of existing and planned capacity and what
the real efficiency is. not the claimed!

the actual price/kg is an indication perhaps but not more in my view.

If physics and technology tells that it takes 5-10 years for large project
and that they are almost never ready in time

I trust the statement from the official experts
that "a supply crunch" is building up.

you do not (on what basis?)
so you must have better data than the IAEA, WNA etc

please provide the sources.

For the long term prospects

this chapter III

What is really known about uranium resources?

we have official numbers
which are totally inconsistent.
when you analyze country by country and from year to year

so what do you object

that perhaps eventually the UPR and USR numbers can be exploited?

please make your hypothesis on how this
can evolve over the next years and decades.

for now we have the Red Book numbers
and they appear to be inconsistent and politically manipulated.

and in disagreement with common statements about uranium exploiting
costs ..

michael

" Very interesting comments
but perhaps a little off topic no? "

Michael. The title you choose for this piece is

The Future of Nuclear Energy: Facts and Fiction Part III: How (un)reliable are the Red Book Uranium Resource Data?

So the topic has two parts.

1. The future of nuclear energy.

2. The reliability of red book data.

Number one is very important to the future of the human race. Number two is really not important; the future will be what it will be whether the red book data is right or wrong.

My overall impression of what you have written is; ‘The red book data is limited and unreliable, therefore the nuclear industry is guaranteed to fail due to a lack of uranium.’

Even if the first part is true, it does not support your final conclusion. If we all agree that the red book data is limited and unreliable we can put that aside and study other data to determine what the future uranium supply will be and therefore ‘The future of nuclear energy’ with respect to uranium supply. This is why the issues and questions raised in my previous comment, by EP, Advanced and many other reviewers, are more relevant to your #1 topic than your concerns about the red book accuracy.

Imagine that we invent a time machine and go back to 1910. Imagine that there is an Oil Institute that publishes a Black Book estimating the known and speculative reserves of oil at $10 / barrel are 500,000,000 barrels.

Someone like yourself might write a report concluding that the world will run out of $10 oil in 1925, and therefore the oil industry will collapse and we will have to go back to the horse and buggy days. The first part of that conclusion might be correct, but the oil industry zoomed right past the $10 mark because the intrinsic value of oil is far higher than that.

The red book looks at $130 / kg because it is many times the average price since WWII.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/pdf/pages/sec9_7.pdf

But the $130 figure does not reflect the maximum intrinsic value of uranium.

Also note that in the U.S. reserves are equivalent to about two years of average consumption. What other commodities do we keep in a two year reserve, food, oil, iron, copper, coal, medicine? If all foreign and domestic sources of uranium were suddenly cut off, the U.S. could continue normal refueling for two years after which the recently refueled plants would continue to operate for 12-18 months at full power and then at gradually reduce power over some additional time span.

Uranium is a finite resource on earth, but we have hundreds of year’s worth using our primitive steroidal submarine reactors, and with advanced reactors earths uranium fuel supply duration exceeds the suns hydrogen fuel supply.

So my questions are on your most important topic #1.

1. How expensive would uranium have to be to convince utilities to shutdown nuclear plants and burn more coal and gas, thus driving coal and gas prices much higher.

2. What would coal and gas prices be now without nuclear power?

3. What other commodities do we stockpile in a two year reserve, food, oil, iron, copper, coal, medicine?

It looks like that you agree with my numbers on uranium stocks
(the secondary resources in Chapter II).

My analysis is not only for the USA but for the entire world
right?

so if we agree stock in the USA allow to continue for some years
and much longer if the military reserves are opened

this will not fuel the european reactors nor the japanese, chinese indian etc reactors.

All I am saying is that 5-10% of uranium supply seems to be missing without
opening the military stocks to a "world" market.

the consequence of uranium fuel shortages are like what one observes
in India. (this was very well predictable.. I remember for example that
my colleagues from India were telling me at around 2004
that the Russians told the Indian government that they will not send uranium supply
by 2010. What happened in India is a good example of what will happen in Europe
as well. "Old" power plants will be retired for whatever official reasons
(it will always be good to blame the greens and similar people)
and the number of nuclear produced kwhe will go down.

no matter what the uranium price is!

concerning the different RAR cost categories

sure the classes are arbitrary.

what they show however is that the "economical-geological" hypothesis is wrong!

michael

" It looks like that you agree with my numbers on uranium stocks
(the secondary resources in Chapter II). "

Not true.

" My analysis is not only for the USA but for the entire world
right? so if we agree stock in the USA allow to continue for some years
and much longer if the military reserves are opened this will not fuel the european reactors nor the japanese, chinese indian etc reactors. "

I report the U.S. data because it is readily available in a few seconds through Google, yet you never mentioned the U.S. reserves in your analysis. Surely you must have come across these reserves during your research, why didn’t you mention them? Could it be because these facts did not fit into your agenda?

You are claiming by default that the rest of the world has no reserves; can you prove this claim?

" All I am saying is that 5-10% of uranium supply seems to be missing without
opening the military stocks to a "world" market. "

And this is a huge unsubstantiated claim since the only thing you talk about is production, not capacity.

" I remember for example that
my colleagues from India were telling me at around 2004
that the Russians told the Indian government that they will not send uranium supply
by 2010. What happened in India is a good example of what will happen in Europe
as well. "

India was being punished for violating the NPT. Applying that to Europe without informing the reader of the real issue is totally unethical. Europe can buy uranium on the world market. If they keep a substantial reserve and the Russians cut off their supply they will have years to establish other sources without power interruption. This is a huge advantage of fission over fossil fuel that you have not revealed.

" no matter what the uranium price is! concerning the different RAR cost categories sure the classes are arbitrary. what they show however is that the "economical-geological" hypothesis is wrong!
"

This is an illogical and unsubstantiated claim. Sustained higher prices will result in increased production.

It is interesting that you chastise others for not incorporating information that has been presented previously, but you are the biggest offender, have you no mirrors?

Examples:

http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/5677#comment-531624

In 2009 only one of 5 uranium mills in the U.S is in normal production. A lot of capacity is not in production.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/nuclear/dupr/qupd_tbl3.html

3… What do you think would happen at those mills in standby if the price of uranium went up by, say, 500%, due to the construction of new reactors, and that a rigorous analysis predicted the average price would stay in that range for the foreseeable future, not just a momentary spike in the spot price as we have seen in the past?

Question never answered.

http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/5677#comment-533195

Michael,
Forget about production and write a piece on CAPACITY.

Give us a link to the spreadsheet that lists the status of every mine and mill on the planet. How many are in standby waiting for higher prices? How many are operating at reduced rate waiting for higher prices? Show us how much U3O8 each utility has stockpiled and how many fresh fuel assemblies each utility has stockpiled or in manufacture.
Explain why all the experts at all the utilities have not independently identified this CAPACITY problem.

http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/5677#comment-531685

Answers to these key questions have not been provided.

In your #2 essay you asked;

" the question is will the nuclear renaissance be stopped because of outages like in India following uranium supply problems "

My response;
" Obviously the India shortage is not due to the high cost of uranium. My recollection is that India refused to comply with the nonproliferation treaty and was subject to political sanctions.
Using this transparent ruse to support your worldwide uranium shortfall prediction does your credibility great damage. "

Yet you try this same argument again in this post, it is insulting that you think we would be fooled.

Time after time you refuse to answer the key questions that zero in on the flaws of your analysis.

So the questions are;

1. How expensive would uranium have to be to convince utilities to shutdown nuclear plants and burn more coal and gas, thus driving coal and gas prices much higher.

2. What would coal and gas prices be now without nuclear power?

3. What other commodities do we stockpile in a two year reserve, food, oil, iron, copper, coal, medicine?

4. Surly you must have come across these reserves during your research, why didn’t you mention them?

5. You are claiming that the rest of the world has no reserves; can you prove this claim?

While I sometimes share EP’s frustration with your selective presentation of the facts and your biased interpretation of the facts you present, I am glad you published this report because it gives us an opportunity to point out the flaws in the arguments against nuclear power, which is good for open minded people looking for all the facts. I suspect this is why Farmermac and some others have thanked you, if I am reading correctly between the lines.

Lots of questions in an aggressive tone!
is this needed if you have good arguments?
may be your arguments are not so great!

concerning

"write about capacity instead of real production"

I did in chapter I
why don't you take the time to read first
before you scream.

anyway

The Red Book essentially says this:

capacity is always larger than really achieved.

and data are plenty about that.

It reminds me of people
who claim more than what they known!

I am sure you know plenty of examples like that
from the nuclear industry

How many nuclear GWe should be operational
today in the USA?

concerning stocks and secondary resources

again you have not really read my chapter II

I explain in detail what is written in the Red Book
(which is also based on the USA information
it is confirmed by the UxC, the WNA and others.

What else can one add.

finally
yes you can read my papers (please do in detail)
and figure out where it is in disagreement with
the highest possible official data from the Red Book

if you find hard facts that the Red Book is wrong
perfect I am happy to correct and in fact it
will improve my statement that
the Red Book data is a "political amalgam" mixed with
founded data from past hard facts and wishful thinking
according to the different nuclear energy power players!

Thus please write your own reports on the resources
back them up with your sources

so we can compare!
and add your hypothesis on the future produced TWe
from nuclear worldwide.

so we can compare the different predictions

michael

" "write about capacity instead of real production"
I did in chapter I
why don't you take the time to read first
before you scream.
"

Please direct me to the list in chapter I of all the mills and mines in the world that are in standby waiting for higher prices.

You have not answered any of my questions, a non-response response.

read the chapters or the Red Book!

next we discuss about what I wrote.

so we can stay close to the paper instead of going from Pontius to Pilatus

this paper is about the claimed Red Book resource data and
how the claimed and widely hold statement about
ever growing Resources is not based on facts but on wishful thinking!

lets discuss these numbers here.

michael