212 comments on The high potential of plug-in hybrids
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As a hybrid owner (Honda Insight) I appreciate the efficiency and the technology involved in this transition to electric powered transportation. However, I remain to be convinced that the vehicle-to-grid idea can work. I would require my vehicle be charged in the morning for the trip to work, and at the end of the work day for the trip home. I just can't see that there would be significant 'surplus' electrical power to pump back into the grid, nor hybrid owners willing to have their vehicles discharged for what would probably amount to pennies in credits.
Might sound good, but I don't think it will work.
What might work along the same line, is home-based battery systems tied to home-based generation systems. Homeowners could size their PV or wind or methane-digester generating systems and battery backup with grid-buffering capabilities. Coupling the storage/buffering system with a generating capacity, to me, makes more sense than using an auto which is only a consumer of energy and not a producer.
There is another piece to the home system--heat. You can use the excess generator heat for water and space heating. With the auto, that heat dissipates into the atmosphere.
That's why I suggested domestic cogenerators to charge batteries for (PH)EVs. You can multiply the benefits that way.
The ultimate V2G grid will have noncontact charge/discharge ports at every stop sign and every red light.
As you brake, excess energy is moved to an on-board flywheel.
When you reach the stop sign and under-road, noncontact charge/discharge port, your flywheel energy is discharged into the grid. When you are ready to accelerate, the grid pumps energy back into your on-board flywheel. That energy could be coming from the cars and trucks braking at the very same intersection or at other intersections.
Maybe we need to stop counting pennies and start accounting for how we will save the (habitable) planet.
_________________
The planet will sustain itself fine, just not as a habitable habitat for those pesky human critters perhaps.
A better (and simpler) method is the 'Regen' facility provided by all AC EV equipment (and some DC equipment). Regen captures the energy in braking and stores it in the on-board batteries. Regen extends the range of an EV by as much as 40% (in slow-moving traffic. Typically, it's less than 10%).
I agree I don't think it will work due to battery life time reduction costs. That is, the charge discharge cycles are increased through the grid connection. So the consumer(car owner) will have to replace the battery more often than a separate dedicated example. Now, if we could plug that car into a PV or wind gen apparatus, that would be even better.
But only time will tell.
Regards,
OCB
Oilcanboyd,
One good point by you,
One (I believe) misunderstood point.
First your good point. Yes indeed we can couple PV-generated and Wind-generated electrical power to the vehicle from an under-the-street contactless connection point. Excellent point.
Accordingly, after the car/truck stops at a red light and over a contactless connection point, we can download the PV-generated and Wind-generated electrical power into the car/truck just as the light turns from red to green. The downloaded energy is used for acceleration of the car/truck out of its stopped mode.
I suspect that the plug-in hybrid won't add that mcuh to the equation. In the end it will mean more coal burning as we are not going to solar ourselves out of this. In fact an energy audit on solar is overdue. Solar's cost suggest that it has the same problem as ethanol. I have a friend who is buying a 3kw solar PV system. The true cost is $30 a watt.
$30/Watt is the purchase cost, not the lifetime operating cost.
At current electricity prices, a PV panel with a 'lifetime' rating of 30 years (where lifetime = 80% of original rating) might just pay itself off, financially, but I'm willing to bet that electricity prices won't be staying anywhere near current levels.
It depends on a number of factors. I'm deploying hundreds of peak KW of PV in West Africa with an economic payback of 3-5 years. The payback is calculated against using diesel generators - the only viable alternative for rural, off grid electricity.
$30/watt isn't even the purchase cost.
"The true cost is $30 a watt."
Wow! Your friend is really over paying. Most people are paying well under $10/watt. And, of course, that cost will go down quickly in time, as supply catches up with demand. New PV cells are costing $.50 - $2.50, and still falling. Much of the $7-8 that people are paying is a scarcity premium and inefficient installation.
We could solar ourselves out of this with third generation photovoltaics -- extremely thin film solar cells printed using printing press technology. Nanosolar and others are building the production infrastructure right now. A single new plant will produce 430 MW of generating capacity per year at 33 cents per watt production cost.
I think plug in hybrids and a grid based transportation infrastructure is a fantastic idea. Certainly, owners won't get rich selling credits back to power companies. But it may pay for lunch a couple of times a week. Furthermore, the overall reduced costs and availability of energy would have amazing benefits to overall society.