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67 comments on Aviation and Oil Depletion

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SacredCowTipper on August 9, 2007 - 1:51am Permalink | Subthread | Comments top

This is a very interesting exposition on the technical details and economic considerations behind aircraft fuel ... but what about demand destruction? If kerosene simply becomes unavailable ... or less available ... and flight prices double ... or triple ... pretty soon there won't be any jets flying.

I live on the Iowa/Minnesota border and I find myself working in Las Vegas (1458 miles). I drove this first trip to have a car and flights in advance are on par with Amtrak ... but I think the Southwest Chief will be running long after United planes are being stripped for their copper and aluminum.

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Not ManCon on August 9, 2007 - 3:14am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I noticed that, although the technical side was covered, there was no hint on the make-up of the "most efficient" air transport network.

At the moment for long haul, there seem to be 2 schools of thought:

Larger (and possibly fewer) aircraft flying from hubs (eg: Airbus A380 / Boeing 747-8)

Smaller (but more) aircraft flying from regional centres (eg: Boeing Dreamliner / Airbus A350)

The article also brushed over the fuel use on take-off and climb itself, which can be significant, although the fuel used from the gate to take-off was mentioned.

I wonder how much fuel would be saved if aircraft were towed from the gate to the threshold before starting engines?

AKH

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Jamie on August 9, 2007 - 5:44am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Virgin carried out a [trial http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb/allaboutus/pressoffice/pressreleases/news/pr041206c.jsp] on this. I haven't seen anything further as to the success or rollout as a result

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Jamie on August 9, 2007 - 5:48am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Sorry messed up the link: http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb/allaboutus/pressoffice/pressrelease...

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Nick Rouse on August 9, 2007 - 11:11am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Could we take the idea a step further and use launch catapults as used by aircraft carriers?

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Euan Mearns on August 9, 2007 - 11:41am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

A steam catapult launching 747 sized jets over a cliff edge - I'm glad that in 40 years I will likely be too old to fly:-))

I believe the most logical place that talk of hydrogen and flight leads is air ships which overcomes the need for a launch velocity.

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GRLCowan on August 10, 2007 - 1:47pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

He didn't say steam, he didn't say over a cliff. Maybe his idea wasn't good, but you filled in details that he did not provide as if you had to reach this conclusion. What if you took the opposite approach?

--- G. R. L. Cowan, former hydrogen-energy fan
http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/Paper_for_11th_CHC.html :
oxygen expands around boron fire, car goes

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TheRedBaron on August 9, 2007 - 8:14am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I mused about such issues 30 years ago. Simple solutions are:

a) abandon all but absolutely essential short haul air travel using instead electric rail. Steel on steel is 30 times more energy efficient that planes. For absolutely essential short haul use prop-jets
b) For long haul where there is no convenient alternative to air travel for some purposes/people (bring back the sailing ship?) it is better to trunk route large aircraft hub-to hub. First Class /Club class should disappear.

Since predicting floods is useless unless you built arks, I have spend 25 years "building arks" beside railways in the South of France. It's great.

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Euan Mearns on August 9, 2007 - 8:25am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Well if you ever want to lend me one of those arks .... :-)

The French I think have got it made - TGVs running on nuclear electricity.

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TheRedBaron on August 9, 2007 - 2:24pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Hello Euan,
You can rent them
http://www.riviera.fr/rentals

I asked the questions. Where did people go on holiday before cheap air travel and how did they get there? Answers: French Riviera and trains. The above link shows a sample of the options. My wife and I have 7 more.

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Euan Mearns on August 9, 2007 - 2:50pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

They look lovely - exactly what I had in mind. Vive la France.

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cgron on August 9, 2007 - 4:23pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

How much fuel can be saved by aircraft optimized for slower speed flight?

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Seadragon on August 9, 2007 - 8:37pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Ding!!! We have a winner! (disclosure: I own stock in the parent company, but still...)

http://www.wheeltug.gi/

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