Electricity in Uganda

In Europe we take our electricity supply largely for granted, almost all Europeans have reliable grid electricity at affordable prices. This isn’t the case everywhere in the world and may not always be the case in Europe. Electricity is a particular concern in the UK where a generation crisis is brewing with the decommission of the aging nuclear fleet, the closure of around a third of the coal fleet under the EU Large Combustion Plant Directive and the rapid depletion of North Sea gas.

To take a glimpse at what life might be like without today’s reliable supply we take a trip to Africa, Uganda, courtesy of Nokia who have carried out an investigation looking at how people manage to keep their mobile phones charged and maintain some degree of electricity use at home in off-grid parts of the country.


Advertising for urban Kampala battery charging services, Uganda, Jan Chipchase, 2006
Special thanks to Jan Chipchase (blog) and Indri Tulusan of Nokia upon whose research this is based. The two Nokia presentations discussed below are available for download here.

1) Power Up: Street Charging Services in Kampala

Much of Uganda’s population is not served by wire-line telecoms services (~100k telephones for a population of over 30 million) and likely never will be. Today’s obvious choice for network deployment is wireless mobile networks. A single base station (which itself requires several kW) can provide coverage over 60km if the terrain allows. This results in mobile phone coverage in areas without grid electricity, possibly for many km, and leads to the question asked by the Nokia researchers:
How to stay charged without access to mains power?
The mobile phones are charged at stalls on the street. The example in the photo below was located at bus station. You deposit your phone with the stall holder in exchange for a receipt detailing the unique identification numbers of both the phone and the battery, the phone is locked in the cupboard and after several hours can be collected fully charged.


Street charging service provider, Kampala, Uganda, Jan Chipchase, 2006

The cost of this service is ~500 Ugandan Shillings or 23 euro cent, for comparison a one minute phone call costs between 200 and 500 Shillings. Considering a typical phone battery only stores a few watt-hours of energy (3.6V and ~1000mAh = 4Wh), then at almost 60 euros per kWh this must be some of the most expensive electricity in the world, several hundred times more expensive than European electricity. When considered next the price of the calls however it does not seem unreasonable.

This is a good example is improvisation. The stall vendor has taken components that were readily at hand (chargers and sockets) and developed the phone charging solution. The chargers are nothing fancy, just relativity inefficient AC to DC transformers producing a few hundred mA at around 5V, the charging circuitry is in the phone itself. A more efficient solution would involve a single high performance transformer however I expect absolute efficiency is a secondary consideration to simply cobbling together a solution that works.

I can’t help thinking this whole approach is misguided though. When mobile phones only need such small amounts of energy, investment in a solar charger, shared between several people or even a mechanical hand charger must be a better idea in the long run. I wonder why they are not used.


Street charging service provider, Kampala, Uganda, Jan Chipchase, 2006

2) Rural Charging Services, Uganda

The second of the Nokia presentations shifts the focus away from phones on to home power with the question:
How to stay powered up without access to mains power
The researchers discovered that in rural communities where grid electricity supplies are not available car batteries are the primary means of supply. A used car battery is said to cost between 30 and 40 US dollars and is enough to last a household using items such as radios, CD players, televisions and domestic lighting for a month. The challenge, as with the mobile phones, is how the charge the batteries.

The process identified takes 3 to 5+ days:

Deliver the car-battery to a charging service, often tens of kilometres away the nearest town with mains electricity access. The battery is taken and returned by a trusted and friendly taxi driver or trader.

I takes 3 days to charge a battery, longer if the town where the service is based itself experiences power cuts.

The cost of charging a battery around 1,000 Ugandan shilling (0.46 Euro), not including delivery. As a comparison a mobile phone battery costs half as much to be recharged.


Rural car battery charging service provider, Uganda, Jan Chipchase, 2006

As with the solar or mechanical charging for mobile phones I mentioned above, I’m not convinced this is the best approach. Lead acid batteries are heavy and the charging process plus transport is expensive. Surely using off-grid electricity generation using photovoltaic or even a bicycle and dynamo would be better.

Question to the group – how long does it take to charge a car battery with a bicycle?

Summary

Whist no part of Europe is likely to face prolonged failure of grid electricity in the foreseeable future it is reasonable to suggest the reliability will decline in some areas over the next couple of decades. We should be asking ourselves (or possibly the off-grid Ugandans) how to minimise the socioeconomic impacts of unreliability.

When tackling this issue the Ugandans do not seem to have developed any specific, innovative solutions but rather make do with improvisations based on the technology at hand. They use banks of regular chargers for the phones not a single large DC power supply, they use car batteries (according to Nokia) not the more suitable deep discharge batteries.

I suspect the same will be the case in Europe unless we act with foresight, designing and deploying equipment today, that is tolerant of the intermittent grid supplied electricity we may be faced with in the future.

Previously on The Oil Drum:

Peak Oil and Senegal

A quick Google search will tell you that a 500 A, 12 V battery will store 6000 watts (using Ohm’s law check it here).

A top class cyclist has an energy output of 400+ Wh at his maximum steady state (maximum heart beat rate in aerobic metabolism). An average man without doctor but with training will be in the 300 – 350 Wh range. An average man without training will be around 250 Wh at maximum steady state.

Summing up, with some training a healthy man can probably recharge a car battery in two days, pedaling 10 hours each day, at say 90% of his maximum steady state. If possible this a monstrous physical task…

A quick Google search will tell you that a 500 A, 12 V battery will store 6000 watts (using Ohm’s law check it here).

A top class cyclist has an energy output of 400+ Wh at his maximum steady state (maximum heart beat rate in aerobic metabolism). An average man without doctor but with training will be in the 300 – 350 Wh range. An average man without training will be around 250 Wh at maximum steady state.

Summing up, with some training a healthy man can probably recharge a car battery in two days, pedaling 10 hours each day, at say 90% of his maximum steady state. If possible this a monstrous physical task…

You are mixing terms and power vs. time. A typical car battery will produce 6000 watts, but not for an hour. Maybe for a minute. Most will have a rating in amp-hours (@ 12V).
Also, a person will generally be rated about 1/4-1/5 of a horsepower, or 150-200 watts. This is an instantaneous measurement of power which they can maintain for an extended period (a horsepower is an average rating of a steadily working horse, not the maximum a horse can pull).
To charge a car battery properly requires a certain level of current flow to dislodge sulfates. A 150 watt person will generate about 10 amps at 15 volts, not really a good charge level, but with electronic pulsators, the 10-amp rate could be used. Unfortunately, the time to charge the 100 amp-hours would require 10 hours of hard pedaling, not something most people are up to.
It motivates us to take notice of the comparison of our comfortable lifestyles to having slaves to do our work for us. Simply starting a car would require 2 slaves working for 10 minutes to recharge the power used by the starter motor at the turn of a key.
I've got an old Schwinn exercycle that uses a Motorola alternator for resistance. Anyone want to try starting my 65HP diesel tractor with it?

As you already mentioned Luis' estimate of a "manpower" is definitly too high. 150 watts is a good estimate, but this is already hard cycling. (But we probably could assume the poor man is well trained if he's charging other people's batteries for a living.) What is still missing in this considerations is, that some of the power will be diverted before it reaches the dynamo (friction). The convertion of mechanical energy to electrical energy will also not be lossless, and so won't be the charging of the battery (do lead batteries also get warm while charging? I don't know).

On the other hand is 100 Ah already a high value for a car battery (At least from a quick google research.) The typical value seems to be more like 40 to 60 Ah. The rest of your estimate seems reasonable to me, so this would result in maybe 5-7 h cycling. (Which is not too much anymore, if it can be spread over a month.)

But you'd first need a dynamo which really is capable of delivering that kind of energy. A regular bicycle dynamo won't, they are designed to work at a power level of 3 W.

I guess this is the main problem in the bicycle idea. And this is also the reason why solar power is not employed.
On the one hand it's missing knowledge. They don't know about the possiblities and even if they knew, they would still need customized solutions, which either requires good electronic knowledge and the right tools to make them, or it requires the money to buy them (usually from the west or the far east).
On the other hand, from what I heard, the concept of saving money in order to have a sum for investing into something some time in the future, to not have to spend some money even in a more distant future, is not very widely spread. This probably requires good education, which is something unfortunately missing in many african countries (I don't know about the special case of Uganda.)

On the other hand, from what I heard, the concept of saving money in order to have a sum for investing into something some time in the future, to not have to spend some money even in a more distant future, is not very widely spread.

And on yet another hand, if you're poor you can't afford to spend much on anything. I've been in places where neighborhood stores will sell an individual cigarette. Or an individual Pamper (nappy/diaper). And at the Colombia/Brazil border you could buy gasoline by the jar - small glass jars laid out on tables in the blazing sun!

On the other hand, from what I heard, the concept of saving money in order to have a sum for investing into something some time in the future, to not have to spend some money even in a more distant future, is not very widely spread. This probably requires good education, which is something unfortunately missing in many african countries (I don't know about the special case of Uganda.)

It also requires that you actually have enough money to be able to set some aside. Most of these people are barely scraping by as it is, and any money they can save will doubtless have higher priorities.

On a completely unrelated note, I find the advertisment for battery charging and "good acid" rather amusing... But I guess that's showing my misspent youth.

As you already mentioned Luis' estimate of a "manpower" is definitly too high. 150 watts is a good estimate, but this is already hard cycling.

Nope. Wrong. Lance Armstrong would pull a peak of 600 watts. I pull 400 watts and at 500+ watts I taste blood and develop a nasty hack for 2 months.

200 watts is a nice pace.

Your comment about those poorly educated
Africans being too benighted to ever think of
saving for future investment is not only
condescending, but boorish.

Do you have solar panels, stax? If not, I
have to assume that it's you are a victim of
poor education and those happy-go-lucky
cultural values that rendered you incapable
of planning for the future. I'll bet your
friends and neighbors are also betraying these
same symptoms of weak characters and weak minds.

You are mixing terms and power vs. time. A typical car battery will produce 6000 watts, but not for an hour. Maybe for a minute.

Who said so? Watt is a power unit, not an energy unit.

I didn’t find the Amp-hour rating, hence the different numbers.

Also, a person will generally be rated about 1/4-1/5 of a horsepower, or 150-200 watts.

A child possibly. Jan Ullrich was widely quoted in the press as reaching 450 watts at maximum steady state. As I said most top cyclists will go over 400 watts.

Check some numbers here.

I never used a power-meter myself, but I know that a recreational rider can go over 300 watts from the experience of wealthier co-riders.

If your accounting is right then we might be talking of 6 to 8 hours at 85-90% of maximum. This isn’t physically impossible, but pedaling in a standstill is extremely painful.

Jan Ullrich was widely quoted in the press as reaching 450 watts at maximum steady state. As I said most top cyclists will go over 400 watts.

That's like trying to derive average income from Bill Gates' salary. 150W sustained is typical for a reasonably healthy adult.

It is pretty easy to find the capacity of a battery, even using Google, there is no need to make meaningless statements like "stores 6000 watts". A typical figure is in the 50-100 Ah range.

but pedaling in a standstill is extremely painful.

LOL, it becomes increasingly clear you have no clue what you are talking about!

"Every morning, I pedal to generate electricity. The Pedal Generator I ride charges batteries, that run an inverter, that produces 110v AC, that powers LED lights, the monitor on my computer, my cell phones, and many other small battery-powered things. It is the most inspiring workout you can imagine."

"Noisy but extremely efficient, I have powered 12v CHAIN SAWS directly (yes, while someone else cut wood with them) with this unit.(1) Pedaling position was similar to a bicycle. The seat is barely visible at the upper left of the photo, and the handlebars (dropped, as on a ten speed road bike) are at the upper right.

Burst output: 25 amps at 17 volts (425 Watts) at 25 years old, and 265 Watts at 52 years old."

http://www.los-gatos.ca.us/davidbu/pedgen.html

-- I'm sure the particulars will vary widely with different setups, and of course, different riders, but it seems clear you can get both a workout and some useful charging with such a rig. Then, as someone mentioned 'kid power', there are the playground toys that have been used for pumping water in Africa and other parts, and could be used for other work. 'Kids, charge Mommy and Daddy's phones please!'
http://www.afrigadget.com/2006/06/04/playpumps/
(This also can be found through some United Nations programmes. This is just the first one that came up.

Bob Fiske

== More from David Butcher's site..

"There are many other possibilities that I can think of for this device. The efficiency and variable speed of the output are two features that can be exploited. Since it requires no fuel, and is not affected by time-of-day or weather, it would make an excellent Human-powered emergency generator, ready for any blackout. Here are some other devices that could be powered by the basic unit:

* Pedal powered charging system for portable "Jump Start" systems. These devices feature lights, air compressors, battery chargers, power meters, 12 Volt DC outlets, and of course jumper cables. The Portable Power station in the photograph was purchased at Costco for $49.95. It can be plugged directly into the 12 Volt DC output of the PPPM for charging, and then moved to wherever the power is needed. Add a small 110 Volt AC inverter (100-150 Watt) and you have everything you need for portable power. Run a laptop, TV, PA System, or any other small electrical device for hours from your stored energy.

* Pedal powered backup generator for solar electric systems or other off-grid power systems. With the newly available white LED as a light source, a few minutes of pedaling would be enough to create hours of light.

* Pedal powered biodiesel circulation pump or biodiesel transfer pump - direct drive, with no electricity and no battery. If you make biodiesel, and you wish to eliminate electric pumps from your biodiesel equipment, the Pedal Generator design is perfectly suited to circulate, agitate and then transfer a batch of biodiesel, and the power source is YOU!

* Pedal powered washing machine (this would be a tremendous workout, especially with the spin/sprint at the end!)

* Pedal powered clothes dryer (when combined with a simple solar hot-air collector, the pedals would tumble the clothes and move the air)

* Pedal powered whole-house ventilation fan (15 minutes in the evening to cool off an entire house)

* Pedal powered pump and watering system when combined with a cistern to store rainwater

* Pedal powered emergency sump pump - keep your basement dry during a power outage

* Pedal powered energy source to power astronomy equipment during stargazing. A PPPM in a pickup truck could provide a steady 60-100 Watt 12 Volt DC power supply, quietly, and keep the riders warm at the same time. Switch riders frequently to keep the whole star party warm. Don't even think of starting vehicles during the event!

* Pedal powered whole-house (central) vacuum cleaner - requires two people, of course

* Pedal powered backup circulation pump and backup air pump for tropical fish, expensive pond Koi or other animals requiring small but constant energy flows.

* Pedal powered generator, emergency bilge pump, crew-warmer and exerciser for marine use.

* Pedal powered air compressor (compressing air takes a LOT of power, and is not very efficient. This would work for small jobs only, like filling tires, staple guns, nail guns, caulking guns, small hand tools - no jackhammers!!)

* Pedal powered offset printing press, sewing machine (an ancient idea), hand tools (grinder, disk sander, buffer, drill, reciprocating saw, lathe), mulch grinder

* Pedal powered public address systems, projectors, or amplifiers for music - Radio Shack has a perfect unit for this! A single rider could power two of these with 12 Volts DC direct from the PPPM. Musicians, your green, portable PA system is finally here!

* Pedal powered Science Fair Project - anything from the efficiency of the unit, to the physiology of the rider can be studied. Human power generation is a vast subject with many possible areas of scientific exploration.

In real reality, widespread availability of tools like those, and lack of conventional energy sources, will encourage large population growth especially in developing countries.

Just makes things worse.

That's the silliest thing I've heard today.

unless by 'real reality' you're providing a 'double-positive', like "Yeah, right!"

Whatever it 'encourages', the lack of our current 'high protein' energy sources will be what no longer FACILITATES large pop. growth. The encouragement and discouragement comes from education and the stability of a society, by and large.

Bob

widespread availability of tools like those,

This is the real killer of the idea : assuming that everything else will be "the same", i.e. availability of bike parts, electric motors, 12v chain saws!!!

Another idiotic delusion (alas!)

I don't get into this post-peak survivalist speculation because a) I don't know anything and b) I think we'll adapt and carry on.

But anyways, post peak there will be a hundred million 1.5kW electric motors for the taking in the form of starter motors from cars with empty gas tanks. I also wonder how much need there will be for a state of the art semiconductor fab. Can't we just loot the nearest radioshack?

Car batteries are probably about 60Ah, or 720Wh@12V. At 200W, a cyclist could charge the battery in about four hours, maybe five considering various losses. A normal car alternator could be used to convert bike energy to 12V DC to charge the battery.

you need to also run a small dc generator, one that powers bike lights and connect it to the field on the alternator.
first it freewheels till you are going fast, suddenly you are peddeling against great resistance and generating eletrical power.

How many Kms you ride a year Bob?

Have you ever trained in a cycletrainer?

Luis,

I won't argue that there are some recreational riders capable of sustaining over 300 watts however IMO they would be very rare individuals. Your are correct about Jan Ulrich's watts and that many top professionals can also exceed 400w in a steady state. I bike race and use a power meter for training and racing. For time trialing, where average watts is the key factor in predicting your ability, I can average in excess of 315 watts for a 1 hour time trial. That puts me in the top 10% of highly trained cyclist in Ontario. I would conservativley estimate that at least 2/3rds of highly trained cyclists in North America would not be able to exceed 280 watts sustained. I've done some personal training and used power meters on average cyclists. In my experience, 200 watts for an average cyclist is a fairly good result. This would be on a 15 or 20 minute stationary test. Sustaining in excess of 150w for an extended period of time (> 1 hour) would in my opinion be beyond most of the general population, even with training.

agreed,

this is africa we are talking about.

they walk 10 miles to school, to the well, to home, they do a lot of walking and are a hardier people than us.

i am always humbled by the following two stories:

story about Vengard, by Bjorn Dhalie

“Both of my parents were gymnastics teachers, and early on I had a certain relationship to sport,” said Vegard. “Most of it happened at a pretty high energy level, every day, year-round. Even the weekend after the last ski race we would have the first cross-country running race. And soccer is of course a part of everyone’s education, as my father used to say. All the boys had to play soccer, otherwise they would totally be out of the social circles–either in school or later in the military. We were in the gymnastics hall three times a week, we did orienteering and played bandy (like street hockey) in the streets. Nature and outdoor life is something we had as an early part of growing up. I did all sorts of things outside since as early as I was able to lie in the sleds my parents would drag behind them. Together with my brothers, I would run and hike for hours in the mountains. We fished, picked berries and spent the night in tents. I participated in area ski races every weekend from when I was 11 and began with systematic training when I was 14.” Most everything he said sounded familiar.

“Even though it wasn’t organized like today, we actually trained,” I added. “All-around training. Once in the summer I did a bike workout to a mountaintop near my home. On the way up I remembered that this was a place we would ride our bikes as schoolboys as well. It was a tough trip: an elevation gain of 300 plus meters. It is a long, tough and steep hill. As a well-trained adult who is sponsored up over my ears, and with a feather-light bike with 24 gears and costing over $5000 dollars, I was still tired. I did the same ride as a boy, on an old beat-up bike, with a fishing pole tied to the bike frame and lots of heavy things packed in a pack on my back. And it wasn’t just me. Almost the whole class came with me.”

Of course it was training. Even though we didn’t use that word. I have tried to tally how much we really did train as children, and have figured that it came out to about 24-25 hours each week. It is almost as much as I do today.

Skiers avoid competing with Kenyan and other Africans who are so impressive in running events. There one 18 year-old Kenyan after another runs times which are at or near world record pace. According to Dagbladet (a Norwegian newspaper), Wilson Kipketer ran the 800 meters in 1:49 when he was 12 years-old. In the 40 years that passed between Audun Boysen and Vebjørn Rodahl (1996 Olympic champion in the 800 m), that time would have been good enough for a spot on the Norwegian National Team – and would have won a national title in some years. Kenyans have, like Grete Waitz said, run since they could walk.

There are many stories about the Kenyans. One of the better ones has to do with the Swedish national track team and their coach, Anders Gärderud , who was a former world record holder in the steeplechase. The team was at a training camp in Kenya. One day they were heading out for a hard workout. Right after they started, they passed a group of boys who were playing soccer with a homemade ball. The young boys were so amused by the sight of the tall, blond Scandinavians running along the street that they followed. During the entire workout, this group of small Kenyan boys followed the Swedish team. After a few hours when the team returned to the start of the workout, the Kenyan boys waved goodbye and went back to their soccer game.

In the book "the home energy diet" (page 63), the author Paul Scheckel recounts the story of a school science class with a pedal-powered generator. An offer of $10 was extended to the first student to generate 10 cents worth of electricity (1 KWH). "Not even the cockiest jock" has claimed the prize, over several years. Of course, this was in the USA, where both money and energy flow freely (for now). Moral of the story: appreciate your "energy slaves"!

Ok, 315 watts sounds plausible.

But I really do not understand the 150 watts claim. A rider of my weight would not be able to pedal over walk-speed on a climb without exceeding 150 watts.

Last year I climbed a 23 Km 0.7% average gradient mountain just under 2 hours. My average power output was somewhere between 235-250 watts. I'm a very lousy rider, dozens of others arrived before me.

Moreover, VO2max and Lactate tests are usually performed by starting at 100-150 watts and increasing on 25/15 watts intervals. Check Performance Cycling by David Morris on this.

Luis,

You touch on a good point. Watts generated while climbing are always higher than watts generated on flatter terrain. You would think proper gearing could negate any impact climbing would have on watts. I've done a lot reading on this and I am still not convinced that the power readings I get while climbing can be compared to my power readings on flatter terrain. My maximum sustained watts for a 2 hour climb (320) are similar to my watts for a 1 hour flat time trial (322). My watts for a 45 minute climb (335) are 13 watts higher than my 1 hour time trial or stationary cycling.

Anyway enough blathering on. The watts you generated on a 2 hour climb are pretty good. If the dozen of riders ahead of you were considerably lighter than you, they could get there faster with lower average watts. 10lbs between me and a teammate translated into a 5 minute difference on the same climb doing the same average power. However I'd stand by the estimate of 150 watts being a challenge for most for an extended period of time. I've done 24 hour bike races and, while not using a power meter, I'd bet I didn't average much more than 150watts after 4 or 5 hours on the bike.

explanation:

one would think there would be no difference in output TT on the flat and climbing.

however the same output on the flat equates to faster and hence more air resistance.

air resistance being the greater enemy on the flat means riding position is key and adopting a position that sacrifices ease of breathing for more aerodynamics will produce a faster time even if wattage is lowered.

climbing while riding "on the tops" allows for more open breathing hence higher wattage and since the speed is lower this extra power is not wasted in overcoming air resistance to the same degree on the flat.. aerodynamics while climbing are less important

Boris
London

0.7% at 12kph running at 250 watts?.. i think you mean 7%

btw that time is not good..you are a lousy cyclist ;-)

Boris
London

Let me try my hand at this. I have a 12 X 7 ft pontoon fishing boat with a 3 hp electric. Powered by 4 deep cycle marine batteries. The batteries are rated at 900 cranking amps and 150 Amp hours.

At full power the motor is rated at 2200 watts. 50 volts and 2200 watts is a 44 amp current drain. I normally operate at 10 to 20 amp range for max 4 hours. 20 amps for 4 hours is 80 amp hours, then recharge.

A battery rated at 150 amp hours should theoretically support 10 amps for 15 hours. That is 120 watts for 15 hours or 1.8 K. watt-hours. So with 4 batteries I have the equivalent of 7.2 K. watt-hours of storage capacity.

The boat has built in charging, 4 individual chargers 3 X 10 amps and 1 X 5 amps. Why, I don’t know. The 5 amp charger ruined its batter first (Sulfate) so I replaced it with a single 12 Amp charger. I use the 5 amp for a garden tractor battery for operating accessories. Works great.

I think there is a tendency to overestimate capability in this regard..

even top pro readings are often for singular efforts on a single day and may not represent in and out every day levels. some power readings are negated by sitting in the pack drafting thus may not represent the ability to sustain that level for 5 hours or so.

sustaining 100watts for hours at a end is still a ask for most people..thou practice improves fittness i guess

I back up you stationary "pain" statement.. thou the term uncomfortable is probably more apt.

cycling while stationary is problematic as the heat generated by the body is not cooled by moving through air... sustaining more than a hour on the "rollers" is not recommended.

Boris
London

Watt is a power unit, not an energy unit.

You said "a 500 A, 12 V battery will store 6000 watts".  You used a power unit instead of an energy unit.  Gotta be careful about unit analysis!

It motivates us to take notice of the comparison of our comfortable lifestyles to having slaves to do our work for us.

Which has been brought up time to time here on TOD. Quite often actually. Personally I am quite fond of pointing out how, for the sum of money of (whatever a 150 watt solar panel is going for at the time) I have the energy equivalent of a slave whenever the sun shines. Not a bad deal.

Simply starting a car would require 2 slaves working for 10 minutes to recharge the power used by the starter motor at the turn of a key.

Interesting claim, but I don't buy it. People used to start cars, tractors, etc. by themselves with a crank and I would start my old VW Beetle all the time by giving a good push on the doorframe to get it rolling, jumping in, and dropping the clutch out.

--K

Mundus Vult Decipi

Not to mention that one or two good pulls on our 1958 80hp Mercury outboard is enough to start it. Although when it decides to be more troublesome, I wouldn't mind having two slaves to haul on that rope . . . .

frankly a sustained average untrained cyclist is in the 100 watt bracket..even 150 watts is optimistic.. but point taken.

however i have seen more effective "tandem cycle" charging of a car battery powered sound system

Boris
London

Simply starting a car would require 2 slaves working for 10 minutes to recharge the power used by the starter motor at the turn of a key.

My car typically starts in 1 second.  600 amp-seconds @ 12 volts = 7200 J.  At 100 W/human, roughly 1.2 minutes of human labor.

Starter motors are typically around 1.5 kilowatts. They are low efficiency to save money because they only run for 10 seconds max so waste heat isn't a problem.

>A quick Google search will tell you that a 500 A, 12 V battery will store 6000 watts (using Ohm’s law check it here).

Battery charge is measured in Amp-Hours not watts. Watts is a unit of Joules/sec 1 Watt = 1 Joule of work for one second. A more approprate method would be to calculate the batteries total charge in joules, and then use that figure to determine how long it would take a cyclist to charge it. However, don't forget to include losses since 100% of the input energy doesn't charge the battery, and less than 100% of the cyclist power will be converted into electricity. Third you can't completely discharge a battery without causing degradation.

While all of this is fascinating, nothing equivalent could happen in the UK.

In England he would be unemployed. This is because he would have left prison. He would have gone to prison becuase he could not employ expensive legal counsel and challenge Govt red-tape. He would have been in court because a policeman and a man from the council would have served him a summons to court for trading in the street. He could have a phd in electronics and passed the UK wiring regs exam, yet he would not be able to defend his installation against charges that he did not 'self certify' his electrical apparatus for electromagnetic radiation compatibility [EU regs, I'm not making this up!]. He would also have to have a 'Part P' qualified installation, and prove that he could recycle his electrical equipment under the correct EU directive etc......Of course, his lack of public liability insurance would have shafted him already!

This is why an infintesimal proportion of the UK will have DIY renewable energy, or anything usefully improvised. It's basically totally impractical legally, except for a small minority who will get piss poor value through following govt pressure group bureaucracy. It's also why we dont manufacture anything in the UK except in globalised companies etc.

with apologies to Alan Drake:

Best wishes for buck-shee practical solutions..

best

"While all of this is fascinating, nothing equivalent could happen in the UK."

... Yes, I agree with all that ... but only at the moment and if things continue as they are ... because only a very small proportion of our society ignores the law and our taxes pay for adequate enforcement of the law. However, peak fossil fuels implies things won't continue as they are ... nowhere near!

A very large proportion of the population only obey the law if they think they might get caught and the punishment is harsh. See the high percentage of cars speeding on our motorways as an example of people ignoring the law when there are no police around!

Evidence from New Orleans indicates law and order can break down very quickly even in 'advanced societies' when basic supplies such as energy and police go missing.

Do you think that there may be such a thing as 'Peak Legislation'? It seems it's almost as bad for us as peak oil!

Xeroid.

If you removed all 'law and order' then, yes, anarchy would take over. I don't think it is a natural state but it would be the obvious reaction to the REMOVAL of control.

Imagine if I said, 'free petrol for everyone' or 'free booze!!!' - people would do crazy things.

I speak as someone who is not allowed [generally] to wire his own house depite being an E Eng and passing the wiring regs. If I want to get a grant for a solar panel [we probably don't have any grants this week, I think the cash runs out the day they start them anyway] I have to employ a REGISTERED installer - thats the sort of crap I object to.

Britain is awash in 'jobsworth' regs made by gravy train lawyers in the name of govt. It's that sort of mentality that will have us all imprisoned for putting the 'wrong sort of cardboard' in your recycling - instead of mandating all manufacturers to standardise + harmonise + modularise everything so that things can actually be repaired and recycled easily.

Sure when we reach madmax, I will be free to run my power anyway I want. It's just a shame we have to reach that level through govt incompetence.

When you read articles like this it really brings home the massive differences that exist in this world and the major possible improvements that even relatively small amounts of money applied correctly could bring to peoples lives.

One of Africas major resources is solar power -with the soon-coming economics of thin film PV African (and other) Nations could invest in manufacturing plants pumping out cheap 100Watt class panels that could be applied in rural situations like this dramatically improving quality of life.

Nokia Challenge (are you listening?): Create, using cheap thin film PV technology, a super-cheap charger for phones that can also power a range of other low power home devices like radios, LED Lighting, etc. Better still, start to embed solar panels for trickle charge into your products -'The SunnyBoy2008' eco-range! [IMO, this is exactly the type of thinking that will make products fly of the shelfs as we enter the age of 'The Compassionate Corporation']

Regards, Nick.

I have to challenge this assumption that PV prices will be dropping. Remember supply and demand, and put a pinch of salt on the promises of the efficiencies of next-generation panels.

NOT that we won't be seeing improved panels that get more watts per weight or per square meter, but that they will accordingly be cheaper for we consumers as a result. They may, but consider the premise of The Oil Drum and ASPO, then try to make some 'out of the box' predictions about demand for solar and the resulting price probabilities.

I'm not saying this to throw wet towels on PV, but to suggest that this technology IS worth investing in even if it is pricey.. even if 'I don't really have enough money right now'. Because since '04, the cost per watt has been growing, not shrinking, as demand has blossomed beyond our constrained polysilicon capacity. Today's numbers could well be enviable tomorrow. People keep waiting to act, because they think it will be better later. Good luck with that, I say.

My advice, for what it's worth, is Get Some PV Today as a hedge. There's precious little other technology that does the same thing, as portably, as reliably, and we already know that it will pay for itself. In the case of this article, it's clear that the value of electricity could allow Solar Panels to pay for themselves MUCH more quickly and become both invaluable and dare I say Lifesaving.. were we to find ourselves in a time of 'unexpected' privation.

Bob Fiske - Portland, Maine

Sorry,
Here's a link to Panel Prices for the costs claim. It's been trending up in the US, fairly flat in Europe..

I can't say that it changes my predictions, though, since we have still had 'full tanks' throughout this stretch..

Bob

I cannot buy solar in the UK for the prices they claim.
'Europe' is a pretty vague description

Not surprised. Again, I don't dispute that this is a pricey endeavour, and is often unthinkable for most people who require two full-time incomes to try to even start raising a family. I'm just saying that I expect it to get worse at this point, not better, and when we'll be possibly in worse financial straits than today..

Going for the hurt today might look like pure genius in 5 or 10 years, if the costs go where I worry they will.

The prices were based on the bigger panels, which can have the advantage of scale to get the best price/watt. The whole Balance of System (Batts/ Wiring/ Charger/ Inverter, etc) of course makes it more..

Regards,
Bob Fiske

Hi jokuhl:

I live in Galveston, Texas. I used 38 kilowatt hours in June, my maximum useage month so far. I'm trying to figure out how many panels I need to get the kind of power I use.I've got south facing roofs with no shade.
The local utility is forced to buy my excess electric, so I would like to stay connected to the grid.
Do you have any suggestions? My best guess is that 4 100 watt panels would be about right, or the watt equivalent in solar film. I'm trying to get an idea of how much it will cost.

Thanks. I'm uneducated when it comes to electricity.
Bob Ebersole

That is the equivalent of running a 50 watt light bulb for june. I expect that the average Ugandan uses more power than that.

Are you sure that is not 38 kwh/day (1100 kwh for the month)?

To put some of the "let them use solar" comments in perspective:

The electricity consumption per capita in Uganda is 426 kWh (2003). That is about 1.2 kWh per day - or about a 50W bulb 24/24.

The average per capita income is $200. That's PER YEAR.

When we say PV needs to be cheaper, so Africans can afford it, we have no concept how poor Africans are. Even if we gave them 5KW panels for $1 (2 days pay), they have no money to buy electrical appliances.

There is one heck of a lot more to this than just helicoptering some technology. Industrial western nations are so utterly different in economic scale to Africa, any comparison is meaningless.

Yes, its 38 kilowatt hours a day., my total was 1210 kilowatt hours over 32 billing days. My big electricity use is for airconditioning and a refrigerator. I have window units, and turn them off when I'm not in the room.
Galveston is semi-tropical, we seldom go below 50 degrees farenheight in the winter, so I have a couple of space heaters, but mostly just put on a sweater if it gets cold. So my biggest useage is from May to September for airconditioning.
What I'm trying to figure out is how much I need to generate to stay comfortable in the summer. My 19 year old son is home from Texas A&M this summer and has his own window unit, but that's only going to happen for a couple of summers more.
My object in this is to be socially responsible. I feel that change as a society can only happen if enough individuals change.
Bob Ebersole

At that level of consumption... Lots!

38 kwh /day *1.15 for inverter losses = 43.7 kwh/day

say 6 solar hours per day in june for a south facing fixed panel tilted to latitude in texas
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/redbook/atlas/Table.html

43.7 / 6 = 7300 watts panel "name plate output"

at current prices of $4.85 per watt
http://www.solarbuzz.com/Moduleprices.htm

you'd be looking at about $US 36,000 for the PV modules alone.

back of envelope says this is about 50% of total installed system cost, so figure $70,000 ready to go.

Note that this is for grid tied system with no batteries, assuming your local utility allows this. If you want to be able to draw this much from batteries with enough capacity to run for several days in the semi-shade then multiply these numbers by a factor of 3...5 or more

I would like to take up some of the points raised in response to my initial post above;

* Firstly that most Africans are so poor they cannot afford PV to charge a mobile phone. I would argue simply that if they are so poor they would probably not be able to afford a mobile or its use in the first place but as they do and as they can afford the minutes usage perhaps they could afford the cost of a PV charger. A quick UK search reveals one for £19.99 (about $40) -surely this is within the price range of the original phone?

*Secondly: I would argue that most current houses are not well designed to exist without large non-renewable energy input. We make houses in cold climates that need heating and in warm climates that need cooling. If we look back to how houses where built in tropical/warm climates in centuries past we see that they made good use of wind passage to cool for example. There are some architects who have started to look into this and design houses that are much much more efficient -for example the Bio-Solar House in Thailand: http://www.architectureweek.com/2003/0514/environment_1-1.html

"
The air conditioning unit has a capacity of 9000 Btu and can operate around the clock. At peak capacity it consumes 6.45 kilowatts.
"

PV Costs will decline rapidly (40% by 2010: http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48624) as more countries invest in manufacture.

I'm not saying PV is a panacea but BIG money is currently being invested in next generation thin film PV and prices are rapidly declining. If we can print it like paper -and this is the model to aim for: http://www.nanosolar.com/rolltoroll.htm - we are looking at contined and dramatic reduction throughout the next decade -and not before time.

Regards, Nick.

Btw. I'm not a salesman for or have any investment in NanoSolar -I am merely very impressed by what they aim to achieve and wish them all the best!

* Firstly that most Africans are so poor they cannot afford PV to charge a mobile phone. I would argue simply that if they are so poor they would probably not be able to afford a mobile or its use in the first place but as they do and as they can afford the minutes usage perhaps they could afford the cost of a PV charger. A quick UK search reveals one for £19.99 (about $40) -surely this is within the price range of the original phone?

I'm certain this is true - especially when one solar charger could be shared between a few phone users.

Instead of one solar PV charger, consider one solar thermal trough vapor engine yielding 1 kW electrical (the MIT system for Lesotho).  An investment of $2000 for a 1 kW system would allow charging at least 100 phones per day ($25/day) plus several storage batteries per day at $.50 each.  At perhaps $30/day income, the system is paid off in 67 days.

Where are you going to find that kind of ROI?

In addition if you have a large area of ground available it is possible to use ground based air cooling to supplement any PV cooling:

Check this out:

http://www.mb-soft.com/solar/saving.html

-Cooling in very hot climates where this mechanism is not available is going to be more difficult unless you have a constant breeze or access to deep ocean low temperature Hydrothermal resource:

http://www.makai.com/news.htm

Regards, Nick.

Nick, it's very interesting to see you bring up the topic of cooling houses. If I might ask a general question: in hot and humid climates, what practical measures of cooling space are available apart from (a) ruinously expensive air conditioning and (b) fortuitous access to breezes? You might consider this not in terms of individual house design, but large-scale urban planning.

Why do I ask this? I live in Hong Kong, where it is hot and humid for several months of the year, and where the urban environment is _very_ built-up, such that urban areas are significantly hotter than rural areas. Massive urban development also destroys access to cooling breezes for many people, as it cuts up the winds and reduces them to practically nothing in many areas.

I understand that there exist gas-filled windowpanes that cut down the amount of solar radiation that enters building space. Of course these are not used, I imagine because of the 'expense'. However, residential units in Hong Kong are already so expensive that I can't see that it would make any economic difference to legislatively mandate that all windows have such capacity.

For the moment, I am fortunate to live in a flat that has extreme prevailing wind exposure ... though I might think otherwise when the next typhoon arrives ...

Ouch! I only paid $79,500 for the house. The 38 kwh per day is my highest level of useage, with my son home and all, still, thats a big piece of change. Thanks for showing me how to figure it, guess I'm going to have to wait until prices come down.
My fall, winter and spring useage is about 1/3 of that total. I have a great sea-breeze and love to sleep with my windows open.
My utility that delivers the electricity is forced to buy any electricity I produce under the Texas laws decontrolling electricity. That law is about the only good thing to come out of Enron.
Bob Ebersole

In California, they'll average your electricity ins and outs over an entire year. I've got a 3.7kW system producing 18 kWh per day. But I'm close enough to the Pacific ocean not to need air conditioning. My first thought is whether there is some other way to cool your house but that isn't my field.

Anyways, without doing any research, I'll assume your year round average is about 25kWh/day and you get 5 hours a day of full sun, again year round average and therefore need a 5kW system that will cost 40K-50K. I don't know what rebate program they have in Texas.

http://linas.org/theory/solar-electric.html

Closer to 4.5 hours of sun in Galveston. The further away from the Gulf, the more sun there is in Texas. No rebate program in Texas at this time. They are charging 14 cents a kWh in Galveston. More than I expected but less than California. It is illegal to burn coal in California. Anyways, I don't think the economics works out at this time. California picked up a third of my cost which makes a huge difference and we have slightly better sun.

oilmanbob,

if you have a sea breeze why do you need such large amounts of air con? You might find that by changing the placement of windows, widening them, creating the ability for air to move through the house more effectively you can achieve a good cooling affect.

The Thai guy above has gone to the other extreme and in effect created a highly insulated closed box -the windows are all double glazed fully sealed- there is a big overhang on the roof so direct solar never enters (i.e. it doesn't become a greenhouse!)

Another passive cooling technique is to have large bodies of water that air blows over before it enters building -like a pool (or the sea).

Try digging a 6ft+ borehole and take a temperature sample down there...

Just some thoughts b4 you spend a big wad on solar! [Actually that's a good point: intelligent efficiencies trump wads of cash. Even for 'rich' Westerners there is a limit to spend and we should look to efficiencies first, Post PO spare cash will dry up fast]

Nick.

The Pacific ocean is cold water even around southern california. The Alaska current flows south along the coast of the lower 48 (or lower 3 depending on how you think of it). I can't speak for the water temperature of the Gulf of Mexico.

Anyways, conservation measures and intelligent design trumps better electricity generation. I don't know how much you can redesign your house. The windows are where they are. I got compact flourescent bulbs (I know they are toxic waste) and we bought the house three years ago and got all new energy star appliances.

In Galveston, it makes sense to get the most energy efficient air conditioning that there is, but you have what you have.

Bob;
Sorry, we're just hitting the road. I'm sure others will have useful info as far as sizing a PV array.

Happy Fourth!
Bob Fiske

I have to challenge this assumption that PV prices will be dropping. Remember supply and demand....

Remember two elements of the supply:

  • SRI's sodium-reduction process is set to yield raw silicon at $14/kg.
  • Both Evergreen Solar's string ribbon process (rectangular polycrystalline cells) and amorphous cells can make PV panels with far less silicon than using crystalline wafers.

SRI's process can scale up to many times today's production levels, and there is no limit in principle for either amorphous or Evergreen Solar's process.  Supply can rise for a long, long time.

THE POST MODERN DAYS IN THE DESERT

I am not sure I have seen many stories that are so odd, strange, post modern, post industrial, post future shock....simply odd and bizarre, but in ways that we boomers will be the last generation to be able to appreciate. Poverty, decentralization, technical solutions on odd and mixed scale, the "information age, the mix of Nokia and the hawker of the street charge, cell phones mixed with third world starvation and abuse....almost poetic in it's implication for the complex and strange brew that will only become more common with each passing year. The future in which no scenario makes sense unless one can track back through the politics, the money, the mix of high tech and third world....a friend of mine recently gave me one of the card type cell phones that her son had used. I have had it about 4 months, and made some 4 calls, 2 of them to time and tempeture just to make sure the account was still live. It has to be the single most odd and useless device I have ever owned, and yet seemingly, a device worth sacrificing for in Uganda.

As I read the article and comments, a song kept coming back into my head. The poets seem to intuitively understand the weirdness we are now facing:

The Boy in the Bubble
by Paul Simon

It was a slow day,
And the sun was beating
On the soldiers by the side of the road,
There was a bright light,
A shattering of shop windows
The bomb in the baby carriage
Was wired to the radio,
These are the days of miracle and wonder,
This is the long distance call,
The way the camera follows us in slo-mo
The way we look to us all,
The way we look to a distant constellation
That's dying in a corner of the sky,
These are the days of miracle and wonder
And don't cry baby don't cry
Don't cry,

It was a dry wind,
And it swept across the desert
And it curled into the circle of birth,
And the dead sand,
Falling on the children
The mothers and the fathers
And the automatic earth,
These are the days of miracle and wonder,
This is the long distance call,
The way the camera follows us in slo-mo
The way we look to us all o-yeah,
The way we look to a distant constellation
That's dying in a corner of the sky,
These are the days of miracle and wonder
And don't cry baby don't cry
Don't cry

It's a turn-around jump shot
It's everybody jump start
It's, every generation throws a hero up the pop charts,
Medicine is magical and magical is art think of
The, Boy in the Bubble
And the baby with the baboon heart

And I believe
These are the days of lasers in the jungle,
Lasers in the jungle somewhere,
Staccato signals of constant information,
A loose affiliation of millionaires
And billionaires and baby,
These are the days of miracle and wonder,
This is the long distance call,
The way the camera follows us in slo-mo
The way we look to us all o-yeah,
The way we look to a distant constellation
That's dying in a corner of the sky,
These are the days of miracle and wonder
And don't cry baby don't cry
Don't cry don't cry

Roger Conner Jr
Remember, we are only one cubic mile from freedom
(but much closer than that to infinite strangeness)

Occasionally someone posts the odd bit of verse, poetry or song here at TOD and you look at it like this piece and think wow, that's amazing stuff. Thanks, I'de forgotten how good Paul Simons Lyrics where. Gonna have to go dig out my S&G vinyls now...! "Are you going to Strawberry fair?"

Are you going to Strawberry fair?
lol, was that on purpose? Sorry to be picky, but that has to be Scarborough Fair...

3 days to recharge a car battery? This is very inefficient. They need to go study in Cambodia.

Here, you simply leave your battery on the street in the morning. The service comes by and picks up your battery on a motorcycle with a trailer. The batteries are hauled back to the village, where they are charged by diesel generator. Battery chargers are too expensive, so they just wire up 15 batteries in series and connected directly to the AC mains with a large diode.

In the afternoon, the same motorcycle delivery man returns the batteries fully charged before nightfall. Of course, the lack of a proper charging circuit does tend to destroy the batteries, but they actually last about 4 years in practice.

The charge costs 1000 Riel, which is about $0.25 USD. A family which is a heavy energy user, or a family with a very old battery might require this service once every 3 days. Some familes with a new battery can last as long as 2 weeks between charges.

There is generally one charging service provider in every village, and the fact that they charge so many batteries at the same time means the diesel generator is actually fairly efficient. This same entrepeneur usually runs the generator for 4 hours at night to provide electrical service to those families close enough to him, provided he can get enough interest to make it profitable.

Electric meters are rare. Generally, the provider simply visits your home and estimates how much power you will use based on appliances. You then get a fixed bill per month. As an example, running a single 20 watt flourescent light generally costs about $2 USD per month flat rate. You have to prepay.

If you also have a TV, you will have to pay more. Wiring is done by stringing cheap copper wire between trees or makeshift poles. Theft of the wire is a problem during the 20 hours when electric service is turned off, so this is a risky business for the entrepeneur.

For larger consumers and more sophisticated entrepeneurs, standard meters are provided. They cost about $10 USD, which is very expensive. The entrepeneur usually has to front the money and recover it over several months. The metered rate is currently about $0.80 USD per kWh. (Yes, that's 80, not 8) Remember, power is only available for 4 hours every evening. Bills tend to be in the range of 5 kWh per month per house.

There are many ways to survive off grid in developing countries. I recommend everyone spend a few weeks off grid in a developing economy to learn how wasteful the western world really is.

Tom In Thailand

There are many ways to survive off grid in developing countries. I recommend everyone spend a few weeks off grid in a developing economy to learn how wasteful the western world really is.

A key point, Tom. Thank you. Someone else wrote this:

When you read articles like this it really brings home the massive differences that exist in this world and the major possible improvements that even relatively small amounts of money applied correctly could bring to peoples lives.

And the first thing I thought was how I look at it the other way around: When we see how little it takes to improve living conditions, it is sickening to see the wastefulness we call "advanced civilization". Yes, I am a Luddite in a way, but only because I worked on the bleeding edge of technology and it made my eyes bleed with tears of shame.
One of my favorite examples is the bovine. In Africa, the cows walk, graze, work while producing milk, and feed their calves without electricity. In America, we pay Mexican laborers to milk the cows with electricity, cut, store and gather their food with diesel fuel and electricity, feed their calves with artificial milk solids produced from other processes running on electricity, and bring their food to them with electricity while the cows legs basically are unused except to keep their teats off the manure-covered floor.
A little technology greatly improves the African cow's life with vaccines and shelter from wind, insects and sun, but even a vast amount of additional energy and technology will only make the life of an American cow even shorter. Thanks to production 'efficiency', we drink milk from dying animals that would rather be walking in the sunshine while we walk with them to protect them from predators.

"If you want Change, keep it in your pocket. Your money is your only real vote. Buy less, buy local, make or grow your own."

Arthur Robey

Sigh! As an ex-African colonial, what can I say? We had such hopes for the Jewel of Africa. It was doing so well.

I know what we can say!!

"We told you so."

But the west was so wrapped up in their guilt, they needed someone else to pay their debt.
Come on Baby Boomers!! All you who ranted in the streets to remove the colonials.
You caused the problems in Africa. Now go and fix the problem..No Don't look away.. Yes, you sir.. Go to Africa and don't come back until you have fixed all of Africa's problems.
What? I thaught you were our moral superiors!!
Never mind, in the next Concert For Uganda you can contribute 50c.
Bloody Morons.

My advice? Don't even open this particular can of worms here on this website. The bleeding hearts will eat you alive, even as they ignore the horrors they themselves created with their insane policies of the last several decades.

Oh, you can say you told them so. They won't understand that so it's rather safe. ;)

Ghawar Is Dying
The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function. - Dr. Albert Bartlett

"they ignore the horrors they themselves created with their insane policies of the last several decades."

They themselves?
Perhaps you should be a bit more specific:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda

"Arab traders moved inland from the Indian Ocean coast of East Africa in the 1830s. They were followed in the 1860s by British explorers searching for the source of the Nile. Protestant missionaries entered the country in 1877, followed by Catholic missionaries in 1879.[6] The United Kingdom placed the area under the charter of the British East Africa Company in 1888, and ruled it as a protectorate from 1894. As several other territories and chiefdoms were integrated, the final protectorate called Uganda took shape in 1914.

Uganda became an independent nation in 1962, with Edward Muteesa II, the Kabaka (King) of Buganda as the President and Commander in Chief of the armed forces, and Milton Obote as Prime Minister. In 1966, Obote overthrew the constitution and declared himself president, ushering in an era of coups and counter-coups which would last until the mid-1980s. Obote was deposed twice from office, both times by military coup.
Idi Amin took power in 1971, ruling the country with the military for the coming decade.[7] Idi Amin's rule cost an estimated 300,000 Ugandans' lives. He forcibly removed the entrepreneurial Indian minority from Uganda, decimating the economy."

As a baby boom American, I was 4 years old when Uganda became independence, and 12 years old when Amin took charge (probably in my teens when he expelled the entrepreneurial class, so I didn't have much say in that either....so of cource I will count my self out of the all inclusive "they themselves" you referred to.

There is a real need for the Western world to examine closely these wild azz claims of "YOU DID THIS, YOU DID THIS TO US! " The West has done much to the world, agreed. But it has not committed every evil that has ever been done in the world. Our self loathing and Nihilism is now becoming a disabling cultural mental illness.

Roger Conner Jr.
Remember, we are only one cubic mile from freedom

Look. The fact is that we stiffed these places to the tune of tens of millions of lives (and that's just in India) and some near-unquantifiable amount of money over a number of centuries - and we're still doing it. It matters bugger-all that there were Arab slavers in Africa and so on. But no, for you guys it's all the fault of those incompetent darkies, who after centuries of being under the boot just can't get their sh*t together, and, indeed, deserve a dose of the same medicine to put them back on track. Personally, I don't see how having us rip them off even more will sort them out, but I'm sure you can explain. But don't worry, because 'it's all about population' and we all know that any truth in Malthus's predictions only takes care of black people - right?

It's rubbish like this that will sink - no, has sunk - this site into an abyssal sea of non-credibility. People do judge you by the company you keep. It's just a fact. Why should I listen to someone on any topic at all when it is clear he has serious issues with black people and Arabs, which he doesn't quibble to express?

I smell a future bussiness opportunity for my kids....

Check this site out, has Worldwide Interactive Carbon Footprint Map, illustrating Greenest States. This site has all sorts of stats on individual State energy consumptions, demographics and Country and State energy offices.

http://www.eredux.com/states/

In other words, how do I recharge my phone at the end of the world. I am simply speechless. Do we have a clue here? Is this like, can I plug in my curling iron after peak oil? Sheesh. What a mindless waste of time.

This demonstrates the lengths people will go to get gain the utility of electricity. Even at the end of the world the tiny amounts of electricity involved here are incredibly valuable. I've spent some time in rural, off-grid, Africa and the recent advent of telecoms is highly significant.

Your analogy between telephony and curling irons is wide of the mark. Remember that before wireless telephony most people had no telephony and with limited reading and writing ability, communication was restricted to how far you could shout or walk and then shout. I hope you agree that communication is important for civilisation, right after the physical necessities of survival I’d say.

Remember that before wireless telephony most people had no telephony and with limited reading and writing ability, communication was restricted to how far you could shout or walk and then shout

The only reason the technology is important is because economics has pulled families and communities apart. Presumably its working its magic in Africa too, otherwise they wouldn't need the poor substitution of technology to be able to talk to each other.

The appearance of technology is a sure sign that a society is turning cancerous. What do they need 12v batteries for BTW, to watch tv?

Technology should be the last solution to any problem, not the first, because technology is itself a serious problem.

Triumvirate of collapse - Economy, Ecosystem, Energy

"Technology should be the last solution to any problem, not the first, because technology is itself a serious problem."

depends on, as always, what you mean by 'Technology'. The term, as idealized as it often is, makes a wonderful scapegoat.. particularly over the internet.

Has this typing connected you and I and thousands of others, or separated each of us from our families and neighbors? A little of both, I'm sure. Sometimes it is useful, sometimes not. My daughter needs my attention, and the garden needs watering.. AND, some of Humanity's problems created through our most ill-formed and overused technologies may best be challenged and cured using more thoughtful technologies, and with an awareness towards using them in balance in our lives, not as total crutches and 'conveniences'.

'Every Automation is an Amputation'

There's a report available on the internet that there is a major oil discovery in Uganda, as high perhaps as "several billion barrels" Google Uganda,Oil, discovery to see the available reports. The discovery is owned by Tullow Resources, a company I'm not familiar with. According to the CIA Factbook, Uganda has 31 million people, a life expectancy of about 51 years, and a per capita income of around $1700. Its a country with a village economy, a high population growth rate of 3.5%. So its a miserable place, landlocked, ruled by a dictatorship, and far outside the global mainstream.
Bob Ebersole

I had read that the Lake Albert basin of Uganda and Tanzania might contain 100-250 million barrels of oil. Am not sure where the "several billion barrels" statement came from. It might have been the high end 3P reserve guestimate that is easier to suppose than confirm by drilling.

The several billion barrel estimate came from a statement by the President of Uganda. Whether its 3p range optimism or the results of new drilling, I just don't know.
Bob Ebersole

Heritage and Tullow have been drilling the Lake Albert Basin, I had not heard of any other petroleum basin discovery at this time. Perhaps they will go on to prove more reserves, perhaps not.

It was like the Mexican deep oil well last year announced as a ten billion barrel oil discovery that was later published as a smaller natural gas find. There might yet be billions of barrels in the Mexican deeps, but they have not shown any production yet.

7,000 million/85 million = 82 days!

we need to make finds like that every 82 days to ensure current consumption.

this field is tiny, so tiny that it isn't even important (except for uganda).

Am I the only one who finds an advert for "good acid" rather amusing? :)

"If you're tired and a bit run down
can't seem to get your feet off the ground,
why don't you try a little LSD?"

-Country Joe Stalin McDonald, about 1967

Bob Ebersole

Uganda I'm not surprised about for electricity. I recently heard that Kuwait is expected to have rolling brownouts! If a country like Kuwait with all the money it needs and little to no public process can't get it together, who can?

I'm not calling you a liar, but when people start saying 'I recently heard' and some unbelievable thing, my first response is to not believe them or that it is wildly out of context.

Citations or links solve that problem.

There might be somthing in it, a quick search:

Kuwait power supply at break point
June 20 2007

Kuwait's power supplies were stretched to the limit on Tuesday as residents were sent mobile phone messages asking them to turn down air conditioning units and switch off water heaters, Reuters reported. Power use on Sunday came within 100 MW of the country's capacity of 9,000 MW, an official with the water and power ministry told the news agency.

Coolers put heat on Kuwait
July 1 2007

Kuwait is struggling to meet rapidly rising demand for electricity as its economy expands on the back of record oil export revenues. The country is facing a repeat of last summer's power shortages as residents crank up cooling systems during the summer heat.

Power cuts inevitable
July 03 2007

KUWAIT: The electricity load decreased yesterday to 8,480 megawatts as compared to the day before yesterday where it reached 8,630 megawatt. The decrease on the load was due to the low temperature in Kuwait which did not exceed 44 degrees.

Sources at the Ministry of Electricity and Water emphasized that the electricity load which reached 8,480 megawatts yesterday is considered within the safe limits, but it is expected that the load will increase when the temperature increases. The sources added that as temperatures are bound to increase, programmed cuts are not far and the Ministry of Electricity and Water announced that electricity cuts will happen if heat temperatures reach 49 degrees.

If you really want to know a big reason for why Africa is so poor, read Capitalism's Achilles Heel by Raymond W. Baker

This writer, who has an MBA from Harvard Business School, estimates that around one Trillion dollars leaves Africa each year - to the benefit of American and European bankers and economies.

In fact, anyone who reads this book will be surprised at the similarities with Matthew R. Simmons' Twilight in the Desert Very dry and full of facts. I guess it is the way they are taught to do it at Harvard.

Unfortunately, the poor education of the masses allows the elite (which may not have a better education) to get away with it. I think the elite can afford the advisers, lawyers and bankers who help them get away with it.

If in any doubt about the underlying facts, check out Mobutu or Abacha. To my knowledge virtually none of the tens of billions these two alone stole were returned.

I appreciate the articles about 'other' parts of the world very much. Thank you.

(edit:typo)

Another eye-opening book is "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" by John Perkins. His website is www.dreamchange.org. Bob Ebersole

The sad thing is the elite would be wealthier if Africa developed.

I'm sure the answer is here somewhere

http://www.scienceshareware.com/bicycle-generator-faq.htm#charge-car-bat...

My guess...

15 hours and 36 minutes.

There are many programs to provide low or zero cost solar power for poor countries. Solar has the huge advantage that despite is high capital cost it usually requires no maintenance or fuel and will generate power for up to 30 years.

Here are some programs that are in place for helping:

http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2007/02/03/solar-power-for-developing-nati...

One is:

" 10 facts about solar

1. The earth receives more energy from the sun in just one hour than the world uses in a whole year. That’s why SolarAid believes solar power is so important for development.

2. Two billion people in the world have no access to electricity. For most of them, solar power would be their cheapest electricity source, but they cannot afford it. SolarAid helps to redress this through small-scale solar projects for poor communities.

3. Building a small solar charger for a radio can cost around £5 and can sell for three times the price in Malawi. That’s why SolarAid is helping rural villages in Malawi set up small solar businesses so they can earn a living.

4. SolarAid is the only UK charity specialising in solar energy for poor countries.

5. Most rural poor in Africa use kerosene lamps, which are heavily polluting in CO2 and bad for their health, but a solar lamp would be cheaper and better for the environment.

6. Solar panels have a life expectancy of at least 25 years – making them a very dependable source of electricity.

7. Lack of access to affordable electricity is a major cause of poverty in rural areas in Africa, which is why SolarAid focuses on these regions, using solar power for education and health.

8. Africa has the lowest fossil energy use of any world region, yet the continent is the most vulnerable to climate change. Signs of a changing climate have already emerged there: disease and melting glaciers in the mountains, rising temperatures in drought-prone areas, and sea-level rise and coral bleaching along the coastlines.

9. Respiratory diseases caused by toxic smoke from cooking fires kill 1.5 million women and children each year. Yet a solar cooker, which is much safer, can be easily built from cardboard and waste reflective material.

10. SolarAid is a unique charity that has been set up to help fight climate change and global poverty at the same time."

A solar cooker built for almost nothing can save a family from buying fuel. Remember these are the people who are experiencing Peak Oil as we moan about having to put up with boring cars or maybe having to use 10kW per day instead of being lazy and using 20kW per day.

Careful with point 8. Kilimanjaro's melting glaciers do not appear to be caused by human-induced warming (though it may be responsible to some extent). A possible culprit is still human activity - namely deforestation - but even this is unproven.

BTW, I have to ask...you're not the same Ender who posts to a Andrew Bolt's blog are you?

wizofaus - "Careful with point 8. Kilimanjaro's melting glaciers do not appear to be caused by human-induced warming (though it may be responsible to some extent)."

I get that one however I cut and pasted this from their site.

"BTW, I have to ask...you're not the same Ender who posts to a Andrew Bolt's blog are you?"

One and the same. Do you read Bolty's blog?

Used to...trying to "know the other side of the case" (to paraphrase Mill)...but soon realised it was a waste of time, at least at that blog. It was just turning into another evolution-vs-creation style "debate".

/SIGHHH,

Kilamanjaro is a VOLCANO. The magma heat and flow appears to be very near the top. Yet again, this is ALWAYS left out of the equation. Its not just a lack of snow, its melting and its to cold at that height for that. Its from below, as is the case for the oceans too it seems.

yet, lets never every talk about it and investigate it, I mean that the way the CO2 people act.

Quid Clarius Astris
Ubi Bene ibi patria

I suggest you tell the scientists that then. None of the articles I've read concerning Kilimanjaro's melting glaciers have mentioned anything to do with the magma flow or internal heat of the volcano, even if it seems plausible enough on the surface.
The topmost cone of Kilimanjaro (Kibo) where the majority of the glacial melting is occurring is not currently active for a start.

BTW, it appears the deforestation claim has little scientific merit, and that the melting can be largely explained by solar radiation.

Solar has the huge advantage that despite is high capital cost it usually requires no maintenance or fuel and will generate power for up to 30 years.

I suspect that high capital cost is in itself a killer. Addressing the root of the problem with credit aid and basic accounting courses may help more.

All this discussion of pedal power has its merits, but aside for a lower initial investment, human power generators are inferior to photovoltaics (PVs). Stationary bicycles are laborious to use, and require maintenance. In contrast, PV panels require little or no maintenance (other than cleaning a couple of times a year) and require no labor. They just sit there and work. Adding a battery bank means more maintenance (terminal cleaning, hydrometer checks, adding water, etc.) and the recurring cost of new batteries roughly every 8 or 9 years, but will of course provide power after dark.

My advice: Unless you live above 60 degrees of lattitude, PVs are the better way to go. For a discussion of an inexpensive "mini" PV system, see this recent post over at SurvivalBlog:
http://www.survivalblog.com/2007/05/letter_re_running_a_laptop_fro.html

Jim Rawles
Editor, www.SurvivalBlog.com -- The Daily Web Log for Prepared Individuals Living in Uncertain Times

Can CSP be used on a small scale? I guess steam cycle components all benefit from economies of scale so any small system would be really expensive. How feasible is using concentrating solar power to gasify biomass?
Also would using a larger generator and flywheel work better if it was powered by several pedal driven systems?
The system could use multiple bicylces, and the expense of the larger system could be shared over more people or ideally donated.

PV would be ideal, and prices are forcast to be reduced, however I think the demand will increase globally by far more than has been predicted.

Storage is the weak point of renewable energy, the most intelligent thing to do globally is electrical energy storage research, small scale for devices, larger scale for electric transport, and of course grid scale storage which would be the holy grail for sustainable energy. Currently grid systems must be designed to carry the peak load in areas, this can be as much as 5-10 times average load. If this could be supplied by local storage, grid stability would be improved with frequency regulation, power factor control and redundency.

Is opening a debate on energy storage a sensible move, as there are various ideas which could work very well ~flow batteries, NaS, flywheels, SMES, CAES etc. I wonder about the possibilities of combining tidal power with pumped storage using a series of lagoons anyone got any suggestions?

http://www.solarturbinegroup.org/
MIT lesotho solar generator, organic rankine cycle.
I would much rather have solar power then have to pedal a generator. pedal to power a laptop radio television yes, charge a car battery no.
China is puting in new eletrical grids, high voltage dc.
no recomendation for storage.