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79 comments on More Coal Equals More CO2

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tstreet on October 22, 2006 - 1:32pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Don't find this terribly heretical, except that while people are arguing the date for peak oil, the planet burns. The fact is, it doesn't matter when oil peaks, we should take action to make it peak and decline regardless of the economics or the geology.

Peak oil is used as a goad to encourage alternatives, but many of those alternatives may be good at replacing oil but maybe not so good at replacing fossil fuels. Replacing oil with ethanol while burning coal to run ethanol plants may not be such a great tradeoff unless your only  concern is oil.

Peak oil mostly translates into politicians talking about how we need to get off oil and come up with what they call renewable alternatives. As long as global warming is not part of the equation, we may invest our money in things which have short term benefits for oil but do little to deal with global warming.

We have had over 30 years to do something serious about oil, all the while becoming more dependent upon those who hate us year after year after year.  If we only have a few years to deal with global warming, it ain't gonna happen.  We as a species are not capable of moving that fast.

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Valuethinker on October 23, 2006 - 1:57am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Actually as a species we are capable of moving that fast.

Consider Russia in the winter of 1941-42 (entire industrial base moved east, Army reconstructed more than once).  Or Britain throughout WWII (higher level of industrial mobilisation than Nazi Germany).

Or the North Vietnamese during the 'American period' of the Vietnam War.

What we are proposing here is that we might go back to a standard of living of the 1950s: but the 1950s with the internet, the 1950s with 2000 medical technology, etc.  The big changes are we have to revamp the electric power system, the domestic heating and air conditioning system, and how and what we drive.

The problem is as a society, or a collection of societies, we are not willing to make that jump-- the public thinks global warming is a complex subject about which there is much debate, and is a threat maybe to our grandchildren.  The glaciology/climatology people think global warming is the biggest threat humanity has ever faced.

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wimbi on October 23, 2006 - 2:57pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Right.  I remember  listening to Churchill offering nothing but blood, toil, tears and sweat. And I remember the people on both sides of the Atlantic responding with a fast, huge effort.  

Sure we can do it.  Where is that certain trumpet?

History shows people willingly sacrifice for a common good, as long as they feel everybody is together doing the sacrificing.  Getting them together is what leaders do.  Where are they?

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Valuethinker on October 23, 2006 - 6:10pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Pogo:

There is no need to sally forth, for it remains true that those things which make us human are, curiously enough, always close at hand. Resolve then, that on this very ground, with small flags waving and tiny blasts of tiny trumpets, we have met the enemy, and not only may he be ours, he may be us.
Walt Kelly
US animator & cartoonist (1913 - 1973)

Sums it up perfectly.  the enemy is ourselves, and our way of life.

Beautiful example in the Guardian today.  Swale Borough Council in Kent has blocked the London Array, a 1000MW offshore windfarm.  Why?  Because they don't fancy having a power cable come onshore on their beach.  Oh and it might spoil the view.

The locals are entirely rallied around this, and the law means Swale can block the interests of the nation.


Biggest wind power project is blown off course as residents fight back

Scheme that would provide 25% of London's power is bogged down in planning

Terry Macalister
Monday October 23, 2006
The Guardian

Martin Bellis dries himself off with his towel and gives a wry smile when asked if he is not just another Nimby objector looking after his own patch of beach against the potential encroachment of a wind farm near Faversham, Kent. "No, I'm really not. I am a supporter of clean energy and really care for the environment," he said.
"I just happen to think wind is a bit of a white elephant because it's so inefficient and I cannot understand why anyone would choose one of the best bird sanctuaries in Europe as a site."

I must admit I had this fantasy of building nuclear power plants in Kent as sweet revenge-- of course they will have to be on the beach (cooling water).  ;-).

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Chris Vernon on October 23, 2006 - 11:18pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
This from The Guardian last week:
Reliable energy supplies are set to rival military capability in their contribution to a state's security, Tony Blair said yesterday.

Speaking at the formal opening of a gas pipeline between Norway and the UK, the prime minister noted that demands on the world's energy resources were increasing, driven by the growth of countries such as China and India, while Britain was moving from near self-sufficiency in oil and gas to heavy dependence on imports. In little more than a decade Britain could be importing 80% of its gas, he said.

"I think in the future energy security will be almost as important as defence in the overall security of a country's interests," Mr Blair said.

...energy supplies are set to rival military capability in their contribution to a state's security...

By logical extension of the argument, windfarm protestors are effectively terrorists! ;-)

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step back on October 25, 2006 - 3:44am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Where are they?

Sucking Kool-Aid out of the Poll straws.

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